This interview will not be the standard interview. There will be a section dedicated to the MZ- Gregg spat. I am greatly annoyed by the behavior of both participants I consider to be friends. I am extreemly angry that MZ considers Greg to be the enemy.
I am also angry that Greg has treated MZ worse then a Communist antisemite Gert.
I understand both Greg and MZ's point of view. Unlike MZ I am a secular history based in thought. Greg may be wrong as a rational coherent partner to have a peace treaty with just does not exist. Given the historic nature of Islam this may be a pipe dream. Rational people loathe war and fight reluctantly but when they fight they fight to win.
The MZ Gert stupidity
1 Do you consider MZ to be your enemy? Do you feel your attacks on him were a tad over the top? One may not agree with MZ and I do not at times but I always respect him as a friend.
2 Gert is a standard Communist antisemite who is in fact our genuine enemy. He is devoid of social skills and higher intelligence. He is cowardly, craven, insulting, crass and verbose but you were actually tougher on MZ then you were on Gert. Do note that Freedom Now and myself went to your aid immediately. The moral of the story is that a person is judged by the company they keep. I am proud to surround myself with a wonderful community. The sole exception is the Duck who isn't bad for a Marxist and has far better social skills then Gert.
Describe your relationship with Gert and do you feel that I have mischaracterized him
as a Joooo obsessed Communist antisemite?
3 Our first encounter was not positive where did you get this notion that I am some type of extreemist. I seldom post on Israel as MZ, Pam of Atlas and Lady Esther write eloquently on the subject of Isreal. I do book reviews, blogger roasts and tend to focus on the evils of the far left. Do you still think I am an extreemist and it is okay to say yes.
The enemies of Israel
As I see it Israel faces three types of enemies. Most are familiar with Jihadis who do not look like blood crazed Jack Elam type cartoons. There are the far left Commie types that we encounter on this blog. 167, Ducky, Gert, John Brown are fairly generic
Communist antisemites whose entire world revolves around blaming dem jooos er zionists while making excuses for the entire world. Lastly there is a small contingent of far right wackos some are Nazis others call themselves anarcho liberterians but in reality bear a greater similarity to poultry then Jason Papas or Warren ( familiar liberians on this blog).
4 Do you agree with my assesment of Israel's enemies?
5 The far left likes to point to a publicity hungry small band of yokels Neturai Karta as the voice of genuine religious Jews. What are your views of the Neturai Karta?
6 The left likes to push far left commies and anarchists such as Noam Chomsky, Norman Finklestein and Adam " ISM" Shapiro as representative of model Jews. Who elected the far left to determine who authentic Jews are.
7 The far left likes to point at the treason of Johnathan Pollard as typical of Jewish dual loyalty. If there is any group that has a history of unparalled dual loyalty it is the far left themselves and they forget the Rosenbergs.
8 Do you hear the antisemitic conspiracy theories spread by the far left in Israel. In the US and the blogosphere Israel and a band of wascaly Jooos ( neocons) are blamed for the Iraq war. Some blame Israel and dem Jooooos for 9-11. How much of the antisemitic far left bunk that we see daily reraches you in Israel or over the web?
9 Who is Israel supposed to negotiate peace with Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, Al Quedah or Al Roker?
Non Jews and Israel. One of my peves with Greg is his need to thank nonJews for supporting Israel. Most moderates and decent Americans support Israel to some extent.
The exception are far left commie types like Ducky. It takes great effort to rationalize the evil like Gert or Uptown Steve.
10 Do you think it takes courage for an American or European non Jew to speak out for Israel?
11 Do you notice that mainstream Christians tend to be pro Israel as opposed to the PC churches?
Living with terror
12 People seem to think terror is remote but I have been there twice at the WTC. Do you put it out of your mind and learn to live with it?
13 Do you have to walk around with an ID card at all times?
Israeli Life
14 Allegedly Isrealis must take thirty hours of drivers ed . Americans can take the test with no hours of drivers ed. I had six hours of practice and passed on the first shot. Have you taken Israeli Drivers Ed? Describe the class as best as you can.
15 Have you encountered any of the Falashas in your travels?
16 What American TV shows can you watch on TV?
17 Is there an Israeli version of Talk Radio?
18 Is higher education subsidized or is pay as you go as in America?
19 Isreal has socialized Medicine, how long do you wait to go to the doctor months weeks and is the quality of care lower then the USA?
20 Can you describe what this odd chocolate spread is that Israelis eat in the same manner we eat peanut butter. I have seen it in Brooklyn a few times. The beloved Rav Roov has a taste for the odd stuff.
21 Our United States readers and Felis are big fans of roadkill. What animals in Israel most often turn up as road kill? Does a road kill cuisine subculture exist in Israel.
22 Do you root for all the Chicago sports teams?
23 What if any discrimination to homosexuals face in Israel?
24 Are there any American Food Items you miss such as Eggo waffles or Kentucky Fried Chicken?
25 Is Israeli Rap as annoying as American Rap?
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
51 comments:
Beaker- Good questions, interesting mix! But I have a bone to pick! I'm a libertarian too! Get government out of peoples poketbooks, homes and schools! And let charity handle needs, not job security seekers!
Waitting with baited breath, don't breathe in my presence!
tmw
TMW
I will have to add you to the list of liberterian posters. In reality Liberterians scare the wits out of far left types like Ducky.
I am not a liberterian but I understand much of the wisdom.
Beaker- I was a Republican from 19 to 7 yrs. ago! I got sick of all the big government crappe from supposed small government types! I still vote more rep., but I want options. Also breath not baitted anymore, you can breathe now!
hehehe!
tmw
beakerkin: I will answer your questions by 6pm local time; that's 8 hrs ahead of Midwest time.
Thank you. You will not be disappointed!
No plucky, the Maranatha crowd covers a multitude of political views! Picking on Beaker over my libertarianism is silly!
tmw
beakerkin: can you please send me your email address(I'm sorry I erased it by accident) so that I can send you the interview(q's and a's)?
i admire your persistance Ducky, very tough crowd.By the way Beak, extremism is relative , dont you think?
Troutsky
I am a Rudy Republican and everyone else other then Ducky is on the political map. Most of the posters are merely realists.
Ducky is our staff Marxist and has never been censored.
Rule 1 Be original
Rule 2 No ethnic slurs or vulgarity
Rule 3 If you make a promise we will hold you to it ( Uptown Steve)
Rule 4 A commenter should only rarely comment more then the author
but never daily.
I would like to know where these extreemists you are refering to other then Ducky and yourself. There are subtlties to this blog that take a while to understand. None of us actually eat roadkill except for Mr Beamish who has elevated it to high cuisine.
Yeah, unless you get it from your own vehicle, don't eat it, especially in Fla.! To dang hot to hold for long!
tmw
Aw c'mon Beak. I don't eat roadkill, I just know how to cook it.
Inside joke there Mr Beamish. However I would love to do a Food Network spoof Roadkill Cuisine with
Beamish and Beaker.
you never know when you're going to have feisty company, eh beamish?
Nanc,
You know my possum cooking story.
Ducky
I am a pro America social liberal who will not work with or associate with Communists in any manner. This is oppossed to John "Gomer" Kerry who readily collaberates with them.
This is more sour Grapes on your part.
Greg sent his response in an attachment and I will type it up as time permits.
1 I in no way consider MZ to be my enemy. I think that he says what he says out of true love for the Jewish people. What's more is that I consider him on the same side of the political spectrum.
It is just that he has taken the fight overboard with certain ideas.
MZ is a zealous fanatic, who, in my opinion would only do the State of Israel harm were he in a position of power here. It is great to say " They must go" or " They are the enemy we need to get rid of them" but it is not practical.
We must fight with our swords as well as our brains. We must show fanatical Islam we are not like them, that we will do everything to defeat it, but that we will cary on the fight on our terms.
I do feel my attacks on MZ were over the top. However, I have no intention of making up with him because I consider him a bit loony.
I think he needs to get his head intact before making any more out-of-the-way statements.
Response by Beakerkin
I am glad you do not consider MZ the enemy. However, MZ may understand the reality better then you give him credit for. Who is Israel supposed to make peace with Jimminy Cricket? You may think MZ is outlandish but is a series of never ending wars based on a fantasy of a fake ethnicity crazy.
Endless war is also insanity and land for peace is a myth.
2 I think I will answer your last question first. Yes, I think you have mischarachterized Gert. I think you have done him as well as yourself a disservice by attacking him in not so subtle terms. I would characterize Gert as a highly intelligent individual, slightly obsessed with Israel's actions.
In no way is he an anti-Semite. I can not stipulate on whether he's a "Communist" because I do not, as of yet know the definition of "Communist".
I do not think I was wrong for being tougher on MZ than I was on Gert. I expect more from a right wing Jew than I do of an individual who has little true knowledge of Jewish history. I was tough on both. I will continue to fight those who, in my mind, may endanger Israel with their actions.
I will be tough on Gert in upcomming weeks and months but I will no longer be tough on MZ because while Gert is a civilized human being I do not consider MZ to meet those standards and do not wish to have contact with the latter.
Beakerkin Response
MZ on his worst day is far more civilized and rational then Gert ever will or can be. I am proud to call MZ a friend and would readily associate with him. Nobody calls MZ a coward but Gert's craven cowardice is quite evident. I had no idea who this fool was until I did a Google search and he is talking bs out of his behind about myself, MZ and the Editrix. I do note that you mention my attacks on weee Gertie but you remain silent when he talks trash. He also whined like a little girl on MZ's blog. Any portrayal of the sneaky cheap shot artist as civilized is a delusion.
Do you actually read Gert's verbose readerless blog? Spend some time and read the longwinded
posts that use classic Communist party lines and dogma.
Unlike you I am well acquainted with Communists. Communists use many terms to hide what they are. Only the genuine head cases like John Brown announce their fealty to a tyranical way of life synonymous with death and human suffering. I am glad you plan on hitting the books in this area.
You are way too charitable in your depiction of Gertie as slightly obsessed. Gert has an Elmer Fudd like obsession with Israel and dem Joooos. Holding the worlds only Jewish state to unreasonable goals and up to constant vilification while holding no other country accountable for anything is anti-Semitic.
I will post the rest later.
3 I do not see you as an extreemist per say. While I think your notions of Communism are far fetched, I respect your opinions and think of you as somebody with whom I have more in common with than not.
4 I agree with your assessment of Israel's enemies for the most part.
I would change the order you put them in however. The far left types such as the Yossi Sarid's , Yossi Beilin's and of course the much hated Shimon Peres's present the first and foremost danger to Israel and the Jewish people. Make no mistake about it: with the destruction of Israel will ultimately come the genocide of the Jews. We must do everything in our power to prevent the Arabs and the left-wingers from succeeding.
The Kach types are the last and least danger to our existence here. Here's where MZ and his type come in. They will do everything to undermine Israel's status as a nation like others, only a Jewish one. They are extreemists who want Israel to be a Halachic state which means that all of its citizens would be forced to abide by the laws of the Tanach or the Old Testament. These forces present a real and present danger to the viability of the Jewish state.
Beakerkin Response
I have never heard any such talk about Halachic or Talmudic law from MZ. I must be reading another blog or this is a generic statement about Kach types.
CTD.
5 I have nothing but disgust for Neturai Karta. They are , thank
G-D a minority but a dangerous one. I have no pity for them. A responsible Jew deems it his right to persecute and abuse any Neturai Karta member in the vicinity. These are the worst of the worst.
6 This is a very good question. To answer it one must dig deep into the history of the modern State of Israel.
The first two aliyas brought the German and Polish Jews. These were the "maskilim" or highly sophisticated assimilated, mostly secular individuals. They made up the ranks of the Hagannah and the Palmach as well as the Jewish Federation. They were creating the Mapai, the Israeli Marxist-Liberal party and they were and continue to this day to constitute the elites of Israeli society.
The descendants of the first two aliyahs rule in Israel today. With their ties they are able to manipulate the strongholds of democracy and attack what should have been the founding principles of the Jewish State. But because David Ben-Gurion and not Ze'ev Jabotinsky was the "founding father" of the state , Israel today runs on the un-Jewish, elitist principles.
No one "elected" these maggots to run the country for us. They elected themselves by being the first to get off the boat.
7 No other ethnic group even comes close to us, Jews when it comes to dual loyalty. What is Zionism? It is the yearning, and the actual action of aliyah to Israel. I will use this opportunity to urge my fellow Jews: If you want to consider yourself " Zionists" you must return to Israel. Only with your return will the much talked of Redemtion come.
Beakerkin Response
I have never called myself a Zionist but I strongly support my bretheren in Israel. Unlike Greg I have no such dual loyalty concerns and my identity is that with the country that has treated my people with love and kindness from day one the USA.
I strongly disagree with the dual loyalty angle. However as Israel is a reliable ally the USA and Israels goals coincide almost 100%.
Beak,
Yes, I do respect Kach's mission, and I do think that Rabbi Kahane was a great man, but I would classify myself more as "Kach Light" than pure Kach activist. I do think the vermin should be expelled, and I do think Israel should be a truly Jewish State that's different from all other nations, but this business about me stating all Jews must be forced by law to live according to Halachah is pure fabrication.
MZ
I did point out that I have never read a sentence by you in favor of forcing Jews to live under Halachah. Where our bird brained friend contrives I am a Kahanist is a mystery. However Communists by nature are not reality based.
I love this line from Greg the "tolerant" one.
A responsible Jew deems it his right to persecute and abuse any Neturai Karta member in the vicinity. These are the worst of the worst.
Yes, just approach a NAturei Karta in the streets and beat him half to death. Meanwhile, Kahaneloyalist, a frequent poster on my blog, told me recently of how he successfully brought a Naturei Karta follower around to embrace Zionism and Israel. Are you starting to get the picture on this guy, Beak?
Beak, here's another gem from Greg who claims to be an atheist.
If you want to consider yourself " Zionists" you must return to Israel. Only with your return will the much talked of Redemtion come.
So, a redemption of worldwide atheism will take place if the Jews return to Israel? Yeah, that's the ticket.
MZ
I do hope and presume that Greg meant verbal abuse as he seems to be against pointless violence.
I do not recall Greg claiming to be an atheist. However I am very disturbed by question seven.
Oh, and speaking of Greg, the self procalimed "civilized" man, here's a couple quotes from his famous blog posting about me.
MZ: please make my blog treif again as I see you as somebody who's on the same intellectual level with the terrorists, and certainly not my "brother". Tell all your fellow extemists who comment on your blog I said "eat shit and die!"
And, of course:
I'm referring to Arab terrorists or those Arabs who support terror [not] unlike the mentally instable MZ who, along with his cronies thinks all Arabs whether good or bad should be murdered. MZ: you're not a Zionist. You're a fascist!!!
Yes, quite civilized, indeed. BTW, I have never called for the murder of "all arabs good or bad." Yes, yet another total fabrication by the delightful Greggy.
8 I must say a positive word for my fellow Israelis at this juncture. There are definately far less extreme-left wingers here then there are in the U.S. Living in the U.S., I encountered plenty of individuals who blamed Israel and the Jews for the fault of the world. Included were American Jews themselves. I actually know some people like that back home.
Here in Israel the treason is less formidable though you see it in every day life. Writers like A.B. Yehoshua and Amos Oz constitute this cancer within Israeli society.
Beakerkin Response
Do not talk to Marxist Poultry and Finnish Weasels. Only long term readers will get that joke.
9 I do not know who Al Roker is , but looking at the list of household names you,ve presented your humble interviewee, I'll go with Al.
Beakerkin Response
Al Roker is a beloved weatherman who was formerly fat. He is in a Seinfield episode with the Shwarma in the Subway and a TV guide.
10 Yes, I think it takes alot of courage for non- Jews in America and Europe to defend Israel. Hence, I take special pride in knowing there are so many good willed Christians in the U.S. who support Israel. I think either you or Freedom Now touched on this. I am not sure whether it's funny or sad that it seems a higher percentage of American Christians then American Jews support Israel.
Beakerkin Response: Jews on college campus face enormous pressure from Communists and Anarchists to denounce Israel. I hope Drummaster does not face this difficulty at Rutgers. His Uncle was a born fighter and foe of Communists. This would be pointless if tried on me but I am confident Drummaster will meet this challenge more deftly then I did. I am not subtle or diplomatic.
11 I am not sure how to answer this question as I have little experience communicating with pro-Israel Christians in general.
Beakerkin Response
This blog as well as MZ resonates very well with many religious Christians. The Commie far left sneers and insults religious people with regularity unless they are Muslim.
MZ
He did state that his response was over the top.
Where he concludes that the craven smarmy Gertie is intelligent and civilized is a mystery. He obviously does not read Gert's blog or his posts on Hear O' Israel. Freedom Now is not combative but he has had several exchanges with Gert. I kick Gert's behind and the best he can come up with is to call me a smurf. This must be another example of this superior intellect Gert claims to have.
beakerkin: are you going to post the entire interview in a separate post? That would be nice of you and I'd appreciate it, too. Thanks.
I don't quite understand why you call me "bird brained" but maybe you weren't referring to me. Anyhow, I'm not bothered by the negative attention I've been getting. That's what I expected but still carried on with the interview.
Regards
Greg- If you have been reading MadZ's blog you should note that, Nabc, anonymous, myself and Jay are "Christian Zionists", and we base it on Jesus and G*D's Words! G*D said it, that settles it! We have a special, G*D given love and passion for Israel, Jerusalem and the Jews! And it is passionate! No wishy-washy, squishy, warm-fuzzies! Our passion is ferocious, we want G*D's best for Israel, we want to see Messiah seated in Jerusalem, we want the Land to dwell in security, we want to see her enemies defeated. Much of what is going on in Israel pains and grieves us! And it isn't for our benefit! We are just passionate people in love with G*D.
Good morning, G*D bless and Maranatha!
tmw
Oooops, Nanc, not Nabc, half way through my coffee!
tmw
Greg
Most people just type the answers in the comment section.
As far as the interview being negative I do not see it except question seven.
You and MZ have a right to disagree. I think that your mistreatment of each other is wrong. In an ideal world you would
realize that you disagree on many things and move ahead.
MZ and I disagree on several items as I am a social liberal. In fact other then Freedom Now I am to the left of my readers. The point is we disagree at times but do not get
crazy over our disagreements. The MZ you portray bears zero similarity to my friend.
Now also remember I stood up for you with Gert and MZ. This is what being a good friend is about.
Greg it is practical to get them out of ISRAEL just takes GUTS which the current goverment doesnt have.
Beak,
Your moral equivalence between me and Greg is growing tiresome. I've done nothing to "mistreat him" accept receive personal attacks for my political views. What would you have me do? Change my beliefs to make Greg happy? You know better than that, Beak.
BTW- That new poster is my son! Just think MadZ, another "Christian Zionist"! We raised 'em right!
tmw
Oh Beamish, my son has a Florida take on roadkill! Jetski-kill, self-washing too! And if you happen to have a cooler handy...BTW manatee tastes like chicken.
tmw
beakerkin: yeah...ok I understand. I just thought you'd a separate post for it but it's all good:) As far as MZ goes what offended me most was when he put my blog down as a "treif blog". At the time I was getting concilatory comments from him and was willing to come to terms with his views. But then, I saw my blog depicted as a "treif blog." I wasn't hurt too badly at the time and asked MZ politely to get rid of that description of my blog. I'm a true Zionist--unlkike of MZ and don't think my blog deserves the lable of "treif blog".
MZ agreed and took it down as such. Several days later I woke up to the realization that what MZ had not been fair and certainly not something a mature adult would do. That day I made my over-the-top comments about MZ, calling him a fascist and telling his readers to "eat shit and die." If that's still possible, I take back those comments. Two wrongs doesn't make a right and I was certainly wrong just like MZ had been.
But now, there's no taste in reconciling with MZ. He's said so many things to insult me that I have no pity for him and had I the opportunity would spit him in the face. He's simply not fit for living amongst humans and this is a world in which we have to learn to live amongst our fellow human beings, be they Jews, Christians, or Muslims.
phoenixflyer: it takes guts to keep them in Israel, too. Have you thought of that?
MZ
I see Greg as having a right to pursue a different vision of what he thinks is best for Israel. I do not fault him for his vision and following what he believes.
I am highly critical of his over the top MZ bashing as you are my friend. I am severly critical of bending over backwards to placate Gert who is a classic Marxist anti semite and on top of that deficient in social skills. I know
Ducky, Ducky isn't exactly a friend of mine but on Gerts best day he is no Ducky.
I am equally troubled by your calling Greg the enemy. Greg for whatever maturity issues is not an enemy in any description. You disagree with your visions for a country you both love and that is all.
Greg is not a Communist or a Jihadi and is not our enemy. He is my friend no matter how upset I am over question seven. Greg remains my friend as all of you are.
Greg will you kindly reread question seven and reflect upon the implications of your answer,
Beak,
I said Greg was the enemy because he is constantly attacking me personally. I could give a rats ass about his politics. You, on the other hand, seem to think that I am equally culpable for some bizzare reason, and I still haven't figured out what that is.
Oh, but lest you STILL think he's a good guy that's part of a general "misunderstanding", look at his last comment:
But now, there's no taste in reconciling with MZ. He's said so many things to insult me that I have no pity for him and had I the opportunity would spit him in the face. He's simply not fit for living amongst humans.
Over the top again, eh Beak? I am sorry, but until you are willing to stop playing the game of moral equivalence between us, and realize it is Greg personally AGAINST me entirely, this is the last comment I will be making.
I partly agree with MZ...We do not share moral responsibily of the fallout between us. In fact, MZ's calling my site a "treif site" and the things which he's said about me following our latest fall-out place him directly responsible for my anger with him. MZ keeps quoting me. What he does not realize is that he has said things far worse about me. I couldn't care less about anything and everything he says. As far as I'm concerned there is no "MZ". This entity does not exist.
I will go over my answer to the question you referred to, beakerkin, and thank you for defending me once again. I know you haven't known me for as long as you've known "MZ" but you branding me a "friend" is very nice of you.
beakerkin: I think that in the future it would be a good idea to publish your interiews. That will give your readers a better understanding of the interview on the whole. As far as the one you conducted with me, it's all good, like I said before. BTW: check out my site. I thank you directly there.
Greg, maybe i didnt make myself clear let me restate it with examples of what i call real GUTS.
1. Trying to beat a better country with more ppl more weapons more iron in the pacific and almost winning is GUTS.
2. Making a bomb and using it to kill thousands of ppl praying there government will surrender and succeding is GUTS.
KEEPING an enemy inside ur own borders is dumb and stupid not GUTS. End of story.
Yes Fler and Fire r both me sry bout that
phoenixfire: I was trying to make at once a rhetorical question(isn't it brave to keep an enemy on the within without even worrying that he may hurt you in the long run?) and a real question to the effect of Isn't it real courage when you know there's a people who are not all your enemy(but many are) and inspite of this you keep them as part of your country not wanting to sacrifice democratic principles of freedom and justice for the sake of making life easier for yourself. I'll go with the non-rhetorical question, though. It suits my positions much better.
MZ
You should take Greg's youth into account and he has awkwardly apologized. You don't see eye to eye but I am fans of both and friends of both. In turn Greg will
understand some of the company he keeps is odious,
Greg Tolerance of EVIL in our midst is foolish and causes rot to society that is my point.
Sorry, Beak. Not good enough, and it's you who I am disappointed in not him.
I am sorry that you feel that way but I consider you a friend. Whatever slights Greg has done to you are in the categorty of youthful stupidity. We were all young and stupid. In Greg's case I do not see malice from him. No doubt he is looking to find himself.
Do remember that I never wavered in my support for you one bit. I do not always agree with you or anyone else but I find it in my heart to move ahead.
The first cigarette is always an experiment.
beakerkin,
the only comment I will make on this is that Greg needs more humility, as do most of us, and he ESPECIALLY needs to lighten up on the trigger finger.
When someone lights you up like Greg does, it is not surprising that it gets reflected back on him!!
beakerkin: I'm grateful to you for trying to reconcile me and MZ. Once again, I don't see MZ as an enemy; only as a bit over-the-top with his opinions. His political opinions shouldn't be a barrier in our relationship. For the last time, MZ: I'm sorry. I'm making this as clear as possible. Take it as you wish. And yeah, beakerkin: I've been childish and immature in my insults directed at MZ. I think he's been quite immature in some of his as well.
Take care,
MZ and beakerkin: read my latest post. That should brighten up your day:)
Post a Comment