Friday, August 04, 2006

Us and them appologies to Pink Floyd

I want to remind people of the differences between our way of life and that of our jihadi and commie enemies. I include commies as they are dedicated to the violent overthrow of the US government.

The United States has a free press and we do allow criticism of the US government. Jihadis and Commies have state controlled media. The mantra from most commies is that we have our own version of corporate media. This is mildly amusing becauseif we did there would be more Conservative news reflective of the market. Thus the NYT has its readership base declining and lurches even more to the left. 167 uses the term zionist media. The zionist media is so effective that it allows fraudulent stories like Qana to get wide play. Now according to the Red Cross the body count remains at 28. The Qana event was staged but how the zionist media permits this is unknown. One will have to ask the brainless anti semite how the zionist media is so dominant but allows hoaxes.

Even Western Journalist must be accompanied by a translator that is selected by the local government. In the case of the AP and Rueters the photographers seem to have been local for security reasons but this presents objectivity problems.

The notion of if we should allow communists into the news business at all in the USA.
Communism is a criminal ideaology with a lengthy history of twisting facts, treason and sedition. It is a movement based upon deception and does seek the overthrow of the US government and the nationalization of resources ( theft). Communists from their inception have pursued revolutionary defeatism. The dominance of Commie front groups in the organizaton of the fake "peace " and illegal alien marches is no accident. In the WW1 era we understood the reality of what communism was and placed people on trial and in many cases deported.

There is the notion of theocracy that the left rais about in this country. A stautue in a courthouse is not theocracy nor is a cross at a war memorial. The Constitution prohibits the establishment of an official state sponsored religion and seperation of Church and state comes from Hugo Black.

That being said I want to remind some people about tolerance. We may not like some unpopular Churches but we should respect peoples freedom to seek God peacefully. This is contrasted with bomb throwing Jihadis who want to kill you, intimidate you or in the last stages extort you. Our country is based on rights and sharia is based upon tolerance and extrtion of non muslims is a right.

I wish to remind Gay bashers that there is a division and lenthy history of Civil law. One may not like Gays but their right to live in peace is part of what seperates us from our enemies. After we persecute gays who is next on the agenda fans of Pat Boone, Abba or the loathsome vile abhorent lifestyle called Red Sox nation. There may or may not be a biological basis shall we persecute midgets, albinos or people with vertical hair like Don King. We should respect gays as fellow human being and let god sort out such matters. That being said religious people have
their right to define their own terms like marriage.

I understand that God is just not PC. The obvious question is who would really want a PC god anyway where almost nothing was wrong. God can not be PC because the nature of religion has a wrinkle akin to ethnocentrism that by itself is not evil. The notion that followers of X have the exclusive path to God is the nature of what religion is. Yet your right to religion ends when it endorses criminal acts such as violence against unbelievers. A person may strugle to get into a tight outfit but jihad does not mean struggle. Nor is there room in America for any notion of religious warfare.

We are Americans ( except for Felis) and our Constitution is our way of life. Far left people try to redefine and create rights that do not exist. The Constitution does protect one from unreasonable searches. However, this does not mean that watching Communists, Jihadis and racial power nuts given their history of violence and treason is illegal, in fact it is a prudent public saftey issue. The notion of privacy is also a myth should I have a right to build a nuclear device in my bedroom.
Of course not but that is a far cry from the government getting involved in the consentual matter of who sleeps with whom. In reality the entire notion of a Government just waiting to charge gays with sodomy was a far left joke. In places like NYC some areas would be ghost towns if that law was enforced and it almost never was. I can picture a bad TV skit CSI sodomy unit but in real life people don't care. Most gays are not like 167 railing at the world and babling incohernetly. The gay person may be the person sitting next to you at a football game or church. They may drive a Harley to the biker rally. Many are religios people and they work in all
vocations. In fact most live ordinary boring lives that are otherwise mundane. We should strive towards respect for peaceful variations of life that are frankly not our business.

Lets try to remember what seperates us from our Jihadi and Communist foes.


nanc said...

first - i believe in THE one, true G-d. there are no other gods before me, nor can there be. of course others may practice whatever faith they choose, but will eventually burn in hell and the smoke of their torment will rise forever.

second - i love all people, especially the gays who've influenced my life - you may have heard me say that if not for a gay cousin of mine, i'd not have had that great a childhood. and their sense of style is like no other.

you're not trying to tell us something, are you beak?

third - you asked it - who would want a state sponsored religion? not i - if i had my druthers, there'd be NO religion. it perfectly mucks the idea of G-d up.

i do believe beamish and hahahanonymouse would agree with me. just a hunch.

beakerkin said...


The notion of hate the sin but love the sinner is a Christian ideal. One is free to interpret the scripture but let the man upstairs do the final judgements.

The best way to protect everyones freedom is the Constitution. People are free to think homosexuality is a sin but let God mete out the justice for crimes against religion.

Every human being is entitled to respect until their conduct deems otherwise. If we do not respect differnt ideas and opinions under civil law then we become almost as evil as our adversaries. Do note I include commies like Ducky in our adversaries. Belief in a failed philosopher whose advocates seek the overthrow of the US government makes one an enemy even if one does not percieve themselves to be an enemy.

nanc said...

and i agree wholeheartedly with you.

however, the idea of hating the sin is not exclusive to christians. we do not corner the market on that, beak.

and the silly notion that we are not to be judgmental is just that. we are also called to NOT be unevenly yoked with unbelievers - one would HAVE to be judgmental to carry that off.

nanc said...

p.s. - beak, why the apology to pink floyd? just curious.

beakerkin said...

There is a Pink Floyd song with the title US and the on the B side of the Dark Side of the Moon album

Anonymous said...


Glad you brought the Gay thing up. I was, and probably still am, confused as to how to address people who actively SIN based on scripture.

I have come to at least a partial resolution that IS promoted in the Christian Community. Hate the SIN, LOVE the SINNER.

People who are ORIENTED in a particular way are G-D's children as much as anyone else.

People who ACT in a way PROSCRIBED by scripture are SINNERS and should be LOVED and supported.

This does NOT include support for the ACT which is the SIN. This is where I see the current problem exists. The GAY community expects Christians to LOVE their ACTIVITY and we are explicitly told NOT TO. Many in the Established Churches have gone off track for whatever reasons and are now supporting activity which is clearly PROSCRIBED.

An obvious example is serial rapists and murderers. Do we love the SINNER AND THEIR ACT??? Where do we draw the line? Is it really OK to steal from another countries government or a corporation? From a THIEF??

We are not allowed to pick and choose which laws in the Bible we accept.

Whether you love same sex, your dog, or you car is not a problem. Engaging with proscribed ACTIVITY with that love object IS.

If you do not like the opposite sex, and don't want to marry them, DON'T, although I would point out that HE created man and woman for them to join and become as one.

If you are born with this orientation you have a HANDICAP. This is one of your BURDENS to bear. We all have burdens and some are MUCH GREATER than others. Just because we have a great burden does not give us a pass on what we are required to do by HIM.

Of course making mean hearted jokes is one of my many sins. 8>(

Anonymous said...

So what's the status of BeakerRambo????

beakerkin said...

You autophobe was goes on behind the steering wheel and asphalt is no concern of your provided I know how to drive and am not impaired.

Do not confuse the Gay comunity with screaming over the top people like 167. Most gays live mundane lives and they do not need you or I to love their sex live any more then we ask them to love hours.

The important part is dignity and Gay people should be treated with dignity like everyone else all other things being equal. I honestly do not care what the people next door do or don't do as long as the parakeet is left alone.

Let god pass the judgements on these matters.

The Merry Widow said...

All people are created by G*D, therefor they are to be treated with dignity and respect(I'm still working on uppity!)I too have worked with gays and even a guy who used to be a girl! The person is to be respected, but if you are doing something that you want to do, but carries the death penalty, do I love you enough to say, STOP, or do I hate you too much to even try?


beakerkin said...


My point is that we should let God handle those matters. We live in a society of civil laws.

A person who breaks the laws of society deserves no respect. Aperson like Ducky who is an advote of a philosophy enimical to humankind deserves no respect. The violation of theological laws are an entirely different matter. Moreover if there is a genetic link we may be guilty of persecuting people for being themselves.

The best course is to respect everyone until they prove unworthy.

Farmer John said...

from the drug-impaired wits of Pink Floyd...

Us, and them
And after all we're only ordinary men.

Me, and you.
God only knows it's noz what we would choose to do.

Forward he cried from the rear
and the front rank died.
And the general sat and the lines on the map
moved from side to side.

Black and blue
And who knows which is which and who is who.

Up and down.
But in the end it's only round and round.

Haven't you heard it's a battle of words
The poster bearer cried.
Listen son, said the man with the gun
There's room for you inside.

"I mean, they're not gunna kill ya, so if you give 'em a quick short,
sharp, shock, they won't do it again. Dig it? I mean he get off
lightly, 'cos I would've given him a thrashing - I only hit him once!
It was only a difference of opinion, but really...I mean good manners
don't cost nothing do they, eh?"

Down and out
It can't be helped but there's a lot of it about.

With, without.
And who'll deny it's what the fighting's all about?

Out of the way, it's a busy day
I've got things on my mind.
For the want of the price of tea and a slice
The old man died.

beakerkin said...

Farmer John

Something tells me you might have heard this song a time or two. I guess this was not such an obscure song.

Farmer John said...

Sorry, I got a flashback from my impetuous youth when reading this thread. I used to live in that basement set from That 70's Show... Dark Side of the Moon (& Tony Chong) on the record player, and the Big Bambu separated from the record sleeve...

Well, gotta run. I'm getting the munchies now....

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...


I was so there, but in the 1980s.

Have you ever turned the volume down on a videotape of the movie The Wizard of Oz while playing Darkside? It's freakin' eerie. (You gotta start the album at the end of the second roar of the MGM Studios lion at the opening of the movie).

Now *I'm* getting the munchies.

Anonymous said...


Civility is required. RESPECT must be EARNED.

beakerkin said...

I tried to interview Beakerambo
but he was delirious and incoherent. All I goot was a series of Mee Mee Meeps. He is in rehab seeing a speech pathologist.
The speech patologist screamed something about not being a miracle worker.

nanc said...

what is the vernalysis, beak? any hope of decovery?

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

I guess as Beakerambo's artisan, I understand the avatar's high-pitched speech better. He's pretty pissed about being couped up at the Imam Gropeman Finishing School being fed garbage, but that's all the leftists had to offer.

nanc said...


Anonymous said...


Looks like they are coming out into the open:

ANSWER and Muslim American Society's Freedom Foundation

Anonymous said...

Forgot on the previous post,

Is that MR John Brown Stain in the last picture with Israel and Apartheid on the poster??

Warren said...

Anon said;
"Is that MR John Brown Stain in the last picture with Israel and Apartheid on the poster??"

Not unless hes started going around dressed as a refugee from a minstrel show.

He's a self-loathing white boy like about 99% of the Marxist nitwits in the US.

Anonymous said...

Ahh Warren,

just trying to poke a little fun at John "Brown" Stain and his ubiquitous Apartheid Israel crap.

MissingLink said...

I am all for tolerance but I am also for protection of what has been achieved so far.
Destruction of the existing structures for some ideas, which produced nothing but twisted, disfunctional hybrid-societies is not covered by my definition of tolerance.
Totalist (totalitarian) ideas must be excluded from our tolerance and translated into our legal system.

Bruno Amato said...

Dark Side of the Moon....Brings back memories....Let's get our troops out of Iraq and into Lebanon to help our Israeli friends to finish off Hezbollah once and for all!!!!

Justin said...


As you and others know I am gay and I can only say the following about this post as I find it to be one of the finer that shows the true nature of the Beaks heart.

I do not believe in Gay marriage as, Marriage is an age old institution between a man and a woman and is not a civil rights issue that should be trampled on in the name of equality.

I do believe that gays should be afforded rights on a civil basis only. Unfortunately as with any group there are groups in the gay community that carry things to the extreme. Just as in the religious community there are those that carry their beliefs to the extreme.

I believe in One True and Loving G*D and One True and Loving Jesus.
If one really wants to find the true Jesus of the Bible all they need do is start with the 1st verse of Chapter 5 of Matthew and read all the way through to the end of Chapter 7. Those two chapters sum up in total what Jesus's entire mission was. It ends with "and the multitudes were astonished at his doctrine (beliefs) and his authority.

There is not a man or woman among us today that can say "I am a with out Sin" If we then are not with out sin what gives us the right to judge our other brothers and sisters sins. There is but one Judge of Sin and not a one of us was left that title or authority.

One should always remember when judging others based on scripture there are plenty of scriptures that speak back to us and judge us on our own sins and failings.

I am intolerant of gay groups who push for "gay marriage" they are trying to take a religious matter and make it a political matter in my eyes. I am intolerant of gay pride parades that only show the ludicrous side of gays.

I am intolerant of Religions and Religous peoples who use their so called religion to foment hate and bigotry against any peoples.

I fought for a country and its constitution that gives us the right to "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happines. I fought for a country that offers it citizens what few countries in the world today offer "Civil Rights".

I did not fight for a theocracy,a welfare state or a totalitarian government where the rights of the few trump the rights of the many.

You are right Beak all should remember just what a fine line we live within that separates us from the Ossama Ben Ladens,Adolf Hitlers,Joseph Stalins and the Pol Pots of the world. And we should be "Grateful and Proud" that we live in a place like other place in the world.

My only fear is that our Government is moving us away from that world.

Purple Avenger said...

Can't we make just one exception for Pat Boone? Please?

Not like kill him or anything, just cage him for a while and let some chimps poke at him with sharp sticks for a few hours...

Justin said...


You can publish this or not. If you find it irrelevant to the subject at hand. I trust your honesty and integrity in these matters. If you feel it needs reworked just let me know.

Perhaps your readers need to understand just who Justin is and where he comes from.

Yes, I am gay. Yes, I was a priest in the Catholic Church. I left the Church for several different reasons.

During Viet Nam I began to not only doubt my Church that seemed to forget its true roots but, I began to doubt my G*D.

I could not accept that a loving careing G*D would allow the atrocities I saw during that war. I saw children with their eyes gouged out, their hands cut off, there tounges cut out for no other reason that they wanted to go to school to learn and be educated.

The V.C. used them as examples of what would happen to others who wanted to learn.

I saw and was with some of the finest young men as they lay dying from their wounds and I had begun to wonder for "what?" Because by that time America had been so corrupted by the media and communist sympathizers that they had quit supporting these young men fighting to insure their freedoms.

I lost faith in my Church because I saw priest actively supporting these swine and marching with them.

I found my church aiding and abeting criminals who used and abused children in their parrishes while hypocritically preaching against such things.

I found myself in a church that openly supported "socialist programs" and unfortunely does to this day. This is not to say that there are not any good Catholics left. There are plenty but you have those who have lost the true purpose of the church just as you do in many of the churches today.

Needless to say by the time I left the Church I hated G*D for not doing something about the atroceties I had seen. I hated my church for what it became.

That was until a co-worker of mine who was Jewish invited me to Church one Saturday. I found it odd that here this Jew was inviting me to Church not to Synagog. Little did I know I was in for the suprise of my life. The church was a un-asumming structure yet it carried a Jewish Name. That was my first contact with Jewish Christians. They were simply put Jews who kept all the traditions judeaism but had accepted Jesus as the messiah.

I learned more of how to accept G*D and Jesus than I would have in a thousand so called christian churches. I learned that it is not about hate, intolerance, or bigotry. I learned just what has kept the Jews from being wiped off the face of this earth. I still keep contact with my friends there and occassionaly attend service.

And I always have to laugh when I recall Johnathans words about Jesus. "Dont you ever forget he was our boy first and yours secondly" :)

That is about it and hope it will shed some light and understanding.

beakerkin said...

Purple Avenger

Are you trying to out Beamish Mr Beamish. That was a good line and I do not know why but Pat Boone is just creepy

Justin above all things and facts you are my friend.

The media did a horrible job in reporting the Communist attrocities
in Vietnam. Daily life in Vietnam has not improved and the human rights of ordinary people do not exist in the eyes of the media.

War itself is an attrocity and should only be done when there are no other options. For example we were facing a Communist expansion in the midst of a Cold War.

Innocent people die in wars but there is a difference between blowing up public transportation in the UK and an artilery shell that is short.

Above all other things Justin you are always my friend. In reality being gay is a minor thing. It does not impact your worth as a friend or the strength of your character. You do the same things all of us men do with one exception.

Now if we were to do a gay stereotype chart I would probably come out gayer then you but I am still heterosexual.

Justin: Lives in TX
Beaker: NYC including five years in the Village
Justin: Has Children
Beaker: None
Justin: No references to theater
Beaker: Big fan of Broadway
Justin : No post on fine art
Beaker: Big Fan of Renoir

From the above list it would seem more likely that I am gayer then Justin or Rob. However, this is what happens when we stereotype.

That being said the only problem I have with Justin is that he roots for the Cowboys.

How many Dallas Cowboys does it take to screw in a lightbulb.

Zero the Irving jail uses florescent light fixtures.

Only the Dallas Cowboys could have a player who is shot twice but is a saftey. He must have been out of position.

I wish people understood that being gay is not a big deal. It does not make a person good or bad just different like being red haired and less annoying then Red Sox fans. We make too big of an issue over someting that is largely irrelevant to us.

That being said the screaming 167 types with talk of gay massacres in NYC and plane loads of Gays fleeing NYC don't make matters better.

Justin said...

Ummmmmmmm Beak do not make me come up to NY and Smack you. Dallas Cowboys (Sheeeeeeeeeshhhh what losers.) I would never root for these yo yo's. My Team is the San Diego Chargers everytime.

I was raised on a ranch and these Rhinestone Cowboys worry me. :)

The Merry Widow said...

Good comments, Justin. I was raised in the episcopal church, I saw some of the same things and some different ones! I left, I am about to leave a So. Bap. church because they want to "go back to Egypt" and the traditions of men. 6 yrs. ago the pastor brought a vision of what G*D wanted us to be, last month it was rejected. It's happening in churches across America, those who want more of G*D are being called out! You know in most cases it will be the home groups that will be following hard after G*D, along with some VERY alive Messianic congregations!
Following the Lord in these days should be considered an honor and a priviledge!
Good morning and G*D bless!


The Merry Widow said...

Beaker- Silly people can only mouth silly things! Their brains are too occupied...with something, I think!


beakerkin said...


That eliminates alot of good material from the joke book as the Chargers are just not funny. However they do have the other LT.
When I played football I was known as NT no talent. The fat kid next to me was known as BLT because one was always in his hands. He would appear at class and boom there was a BLT. Where this never ending supply of fod came from remains a mystery.

Anonymous said...


false justification just doesn't cut it.

You said:

"You do the same things all of us men do with one exception."

So all men have sex with women. Someone committing adultery just does it with another mans wife. That is only ONE DIFFERENCE. Does that make it OK???? Well a lot of people seem to think it is now.

Get over it. The scripture is pretty clear about the Law and sins.

I have no intent to start a Jihad to wipe out Gays, or adulterers or...

I intend to try and make it very clear that I will not sit around and allow people to explain away our religious foundations and the foundations of our country.

They worked for a long time and still work when good hearted people support them and work with others to understand them and live by them.

beakerkin said...


You may be making a mistake on a practical level. It is becoming clearer that there are biological aspects of homosexuality. Do you want to go back to an age where people who were infirm were said to be cursed by the devil.

Your view of the scripture is in fact taken from a literal interpretation and shared by many.
Yet even if those are the dominant views of homosexuality we are governed by Civil and not theological law.

How does the person next door sex life have any impact on your life. As a practical matter we make way too big a deal. Why do you define Justin by this aspect? He is a Vietnam veteran, a chaplain, a father, Republican, manager and a football fan. Being gay is not such a big deal. Now being a Red Sox fan or a Communist is a big deal.

If we persecute people like Justin, Rob or even 167 based upon being gay then we are almost as evil as the Jihadi nuts we face. This antipathy for gays may very well be hostility for people being themselves. Should we be like Iran and offer Gays four ways to die? This would not be the Country I love with all my heart.

Anonymous said...

Let me try to clarify what I see as a basic problem.

Justin brought up the statement by Jesus to the Priests and the woman they were stoning.

It goes something like:

Judge not lest ye be judged.

This is currently being interpreted as we SHOULD NOT JUDGE!!! And since we should not judge we should just STFU about others pecadilloes.

Let's break it down a little as EVERYTHING Jesus is reported to have said was fairly important.

I think the stumbling block is the JUDGE. Here is the definition from an online dictionary:

1) To form an opinion or estimation of after careful consideration: judge heights; judging character.

2) a) Law To hear and decide on in a court of law; try: judge a case.

b) Obsolete To pass sentence on; condemn.

c) To act as one appointed to decide the winners of: judge an essay contest.

3) To determine or declare after consideration or deliberation.

4) Informal To have as an opinion or assumption; suppose: I judge you're right.

5)Bible To govern; rule. Used of an ancient Israelite leader.

1 I don't see a problem with. We HAVE to do this continuously to survive.

3 again wouldn't appear to be a problem

4 no problem

5 wouldn't appear to apply

So, we are left with definition 2. This I think is the problem. Of course Jesus was talkin to Priests who could have loosely been considered Lawgivers and JUDGES who DID HAVE THE RIGHT TO DETERMINE GUILT AND PASS SENTENCE!!!!

Jesus was saying to these guys, OK, you JUDGE this woman to be deserving the death penalty, fine, you deserve the death penalty also.

The issue with how this situation is being interpreted is more with the SENTENCING part of JUDGE.

We, as individuals should not be running around deciding what SENTENCE a Law breaker should get. This should be done by our Lord or by duly constituted authority.

Recognising and speaking out against SIN is all of our DUTIES as Christians and Jews!!!!

In other words, I believe the statement was intended to get across 2 ideas. The first is that we should not pass and execute sentence on others personally. The second one is more understandable to the love and pacifist crowd. Do not punish in an inapropriate or excessive way.

I will repeat, I believe this statement was in no way meant to say that we should not SEE and SPEAK OUT against SIN and Law Breaking.

Of course there was one other statement that is often quoted in this scenario. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Ya gotta ask yourself, did he mean this to become an all encompassing statement that only those who are as pure as himself were allowed to be involved in punishing lawbreakers and sinners??? Cause if you do, we have to get rid of all laws courts regulations... I really do not think Jesus, teaching morality and LAW, meant it to be stretched in this way.

It think it DID mean that he didn't want any of those people killing that sinner!!!

The whole situation has to be understood in the context of an unarmed man trying to PEACEFULLY back down a crowd of BLOODTHIRSTY SINNERS INTENT ON SALVING THEIR OWN SOULS BY KILLING SO MEONE ELSE FOR THEIR SINS!!!

Jesus SHAMED these people into understanding that they were committing injustice.

Using this incident to negate other parts of his and the rest of the Bibles teachings is also SHAMEFUL!!!!

We MUST accept the fact that there are LAWS we live by and that by enforcing those laws we also accept they will be enforced upon OURSELVES!! This incident was MORE ABOUT, in my opinion, UNEQUAL enforcement of the laws than saying stoning wasn't appropriate to the womans crime.

I will also claim that this type of intentional misinterpretation is exactly where the Churches in the US are falling apart and losing people. Eventually it sinks in to reasonable people that everything goes is RIDICULOUS not to mention against ALL THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS and the Prophets/Lawgivers!!!!

Anonymous said...


I do NOT promote persecution of GAYS any more than I promote persecution of those who don't honor their father and mother.

On the other hand, I refuse to allow people to tell me that those who break that commandmant should be ignored.

On the other subject, when would you like to show me the biological basis of homosexuality? As I have suggested before, it would APPEAR that a small number of homosexuals WERE BORN THAT WAY.

Of course, there is no definitive study of this or the FACT that doctors determine for MOST hermaphrodites what physical organs they will be left with!! This means data on someone being GENDERED at birth by the doctor, possibly incorrectly, is also not included.

We are a LOOOOONG way from making this decision.

I would also point out that there are VERY GOOD STUDIES CONNECTING INHERENT CHEMICAL IMBALANCES for some peoples violent tendencies contributing to MURDERS. These people are not even as culpable as a drunk as they did not CHOOSE TO HAVE THE IMBALANCE. We do recognise that they are a danger to society and hopefully lock them up when we can not CURE them.

Again, recognising a sin and trying to help the person stop sinning is not equal to persecution.

IS IT??????????????????????????

Elmer's Brother said...

With all due respect:

In the Bible, it states "judge not lest ye be judged." Truly, [a person's] lifestyle should not be judged by us, as no one but God has the right to do so...

In the case of homosexuality, God has already expressed what His judgment is of this lifestyle. Leviticus 18:22 declares, "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination" (see also Lev 20:13; Rom 1:24-27).

So when Christians say, "Homosexuality is a sin" we are NOT judging other's lifestyles; Christians are proclaiming what God's judgment of this lifestyle is. When the Bible speaks clearly on a topic, it is appropriate for Christians to proclaim this absolute. (Ezek 3:18; Acts 20:26,27).

As John Calvin comments, "We are not only permitted, but are even bound, to condemn all sins.... It is His will that we should proclaim the sentence which He pronounces on the actions of men: only we must preserve such modesty towards each other, as to make it manifest that He is the only 'Lawgiver and Judge'" (Isa 33:22; Calvin, p.347).

John the Baptist proclaimed to Herod, "It is not lawful for you to have your brother's wife" (Mark 6:18). In doing so, John was not breaking Jesus' command to "Judge not" as the Bible clearly teaches this behavior is sinful (Lev 18:16; 20:21).

Similarly, it is appropriate for Christians today to proclaim, "Homosexuality is a sin" or "Fornication is a sin" or "Adultery is a sin" or "lying is a sin" because the Bible clearly teaches these behaviors have already been judged by God to be wrong (1Cor 6:9,10).

But, Christians should be cautious when making such proclamations. We need to be sure the behaviors are in fact clearly condemned in the Word of God and are not just "human traditions" we have added to the Scriptures (Rom 14:5,6).

And we need to be wary about the attitude in which we give advice to others, allow God time to work in another's life, while looking more carefully at our own lives than we do at the lives of others (Rom 14:1-4,10-13).

beakerkin said...


I am glad to see you up and about.
Many of you know the deep respect I have for religious people. I have a special respect for Christians.

Everyone is well aware that the dominant view of what the scripture says on homosexuality. However, in our regular lives we live according to Civil law. I regard theological and religious law as seperate.

I would have no problem with going to lunch with a gay coworker or living next door to a gay person.
This is where I say let the man upstairs decide who did what. As for life down here lets respect all people until they merrit other types of treatment.

How many of you would refuse to eat with a gay coworker?

One has the choice of the following people as a lunch gues Justin, John Brown or Beakerkin. Smart people would chose Justin because Brown would have to be pummeled to shut up. If you went to
lunch with me you might need to create a distraction to get food at the buffet like the buffet ninja of St Albans. Justin might even pick up the check. Lets see how you people answer this one.

Mr Beamish doesn't have to go to the buffet because he can just hit food at will with a vehicle.

Justin said...


You are sadly mistaken. I never said anything about Jesus talking to the priest regarding stoning a woman. The scripture you quoted me saying is in the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus was not talking to the pharisees at that point he was talking to the multitude. He was telling them how to live their lives in relation to G*D. I would suggest you go read Matthew Chapter 5 thru Chapter 7 fully not just choose your little scriptures to judge with. Jesus told the people they have no right to judge anyone. This is the problem with casual use of the scripture.

When Jesus was saving the woman who was about to be stoned he said: "Let he that is without sin cast the first stone." He never said at that point judge not lest you be judged.

I have never tried to push my life style on you or anyone else here. However when people start attacking me religiously and judging my life scripturally then they better make sure their heart and soul are as pure as the driven snow and that they are with out any sin. As you know Sin is Sin in the eyes of G*D and your sin is no less than anyone elses.

When you speak of abominations to G*D then I suggest you find everything in the book he finds as an abomination (what you eat, what you wear as well as what you think). And make sure you are not committing an abomination.

Now if any of you would rather I not be here that you think because I am gay I have nothing to contribute then I challenge you to come forward and say that because Im gay you dont want me around.

Jesus said:

Matthew Chapter 5:

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The Merry Widow said...

True, and I would rather have a homosexual couple in church(not necessarily as members) where they may hear the truth and with prayer, fasting and accountability partners break the cycle of sin and be set free! We all have been freed,or are in the process of being freed from something. Paul's point was that sexual sins are sins against ourselves. And he also pointed out that many in the churches had been set free of all of those sexual, witchcraft and anger sins! Justin, the problem is that so many diseases are perpetuated by unnatural sex, wheither promiscuity, bestiality or homosexuality. There is a healthy fear of catching them by those who practice sex outside of G*D's will. Sorry the genetic componete is shaky at best, I am not a doctor, but I do have almost a Masters in Biology, including micro. The majority of sexually transmitted diseases are either from the human gut or from animals originally! That is why G*D commanded the Israelites to kill every single man, woman, child and animal of the Canaanites, they were ALL HORRENDOUSLLY DISEASED! The evidence is in the forensics! The teeth of those who had syphilis from birth showed rings at a certain period of growth. It is not only sin, but unhealthy for society! That is something that needs to be faced fully.


nanc said...

tmw - that is why fornication outside of marriage is frowned upon by G-d. He meant for a man to leave his mother and father and cleave to his WIFE. there was a plan - a plan for us to have a healthy relationship inside marriage so that we may never be exposed to disease.

i'm with anon on this. and the judge not lest ye be judged is a copout because we should know we are ALL going to be judged. that entire chapter should be read in context.

i smoke and know for a fact it bothers others who know me and although i smoke only about a half-pack per day - them harping at me about it has only made me want to light up more.

NONE are perfect. if you lie, you are a liar; if you steal time at work and put in for pay for it, you are a thief; if you like your car or drugs better than anything else, you are putting other gods above G-d; if you don't keep the sabbath, you're not a good jew (or christian i might add); if you envy and try to turn others against one another, you are not only guilty of covetousness, but also bearing false witness; if you've had an abortion, you are a murderer; if you bow down before ANY of these or any other, you are guilty of having false idols. and if you do not go off into adulthood and do well; you are guilty of not honoring your parents.

as for the law in itself, it was made to stumble us - to trip us up - there has been not one keep it but Yeshua.

i won't powder anybody's butt if they're sinning and definitely will be disappointed. it's all part of the judging that so man are quick to say we're not supposed to do.

my sin is no better or worse than anybody else's other than i'm quick to ask for forgiveness and our big G-d casts it into forgetfulness.

the acts of homosexuality are wrong and an abomination in the eyes of G-d. am i being judgmental - NO, i'm stating fact. don't think i don't read that little disclaimer on the side of the pack of my cigarettes.

Anonymous said...

That's right JUSTIN.


Tell us you are a sinner specifically in how you perform certain acts and your admonitions might be a little more acceptable.

Yes, I get confused about where certain quotes come from. I was wrong.

I claim my comments are still VALID about what is meant by the quotes. The quotes you repeat reinforce my case. Jesus continues to reiterate the LAW is the same and is imperative!!!!!

Here is a good discussion of the Judge bit that is similar to my contention:

Jesus never said that the LAW was no longer valid or could be ignored. He did bring forgiveness and working with sinners instead of just killing them out of hand, running them off, or brutalising them.

To be forgiven you must first understand and confess your sins.

Should I tell the scout masters, teachers, Judges, Priests... that it is OK to be a pedophile?? That if they keep it "BEHIND CLOSED DOORS" that it is OK??

Do I tell the thief and adulterer that as long as they don't get caught it is OK??

Do I tell those who raise graven images that it is OK and to keep doing it??

Do I just ignore all these thing?

Persisting in your sin shows a lack of contrition and understanding of the fact you are sinning. If you do not accept you are sinning it is an issue between you and your Lord.

And yes, apparently some sins and actions are worse than others as even Jesus compared certain activity to obviously horrible crimes.

As far as Beakerkin, where have I advocated oppressing, locking up, beating, firing... homosexuals because they are sinners.

As far as pedophiles, yeah lock'em up and don't let them out.

My problem with homosexuals who otherwise live normal lives is that few of them DO keep it to themselves. In our modern society where people live as roomates it s a little easier to keep hidden. In a regular neighborhood where most people live in families the kids always wonder why the 2 women or 2 men live together because it stands out. It then becomes an example of how NORMAL and OK it is for same sex to associate instead of opposite.

That might be fine for non Judaeo/Christians, BUT, it is not fine for me and my kids.

To take it a step further I defy you to show me a civilisation that has embraced homosexuality (and other sinful modes) that did not become even more perverted with time. I agree that Homosexuality is not the ONLY problem with our society. It is one symptom of a greater problem.

We currently have a pedophile who is attempting to argue in court that it is a Constitutionally Protected RIGHT.

How did we get here?? One step at a time LIBERALIZING the LAW!!! We either go back to the foundation that the Lord gave us or continue down this road of anything goes!!

People tell me you can't LEGISLATE MORALITY. My response is just what the HECK is our CRIMINAL Law specifically and most law in general but Judaeo/Christian MORALITY??? We HAVE and WE WILL CONTINUE to legislate morality unless we decide to become anarchists.

The fact that a particular group has managed to convince enough people, or Judges, to declare something a RIGHT does not in any way make it right, just legal. I still retain the RIGHT to try and convince enough people to change it back. Although the Activists try to make even talking about it a HATE CRIME!!!!

Finally, you and many others claim that they keep it to themselves so it doesn't affect any one else. Excuse me, but, am I psychic or did you TELL US that you were homosexual and in a COMMITTED RELATIONSHIP to carry your argument that it isn't a big deal????

I will no longer belabor this. I aplolgise to everyone for making such a big deal out of it.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...


Now if any of you would rather I not be here that you think because I am gay I have nothing to contribute then I challenge you to come forward and say that because Im gay you dont want me around.

I would never say that.

I would (and did) say that because you willfully engage in homosexual behavior despite clear Old and New Testament scriptures from God that declare such acts as abominations to His sight, you ought not tout yourself as a Christian (or a Jew for that matter) adhering to God's commandments. It isn't fooling anyone.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

It is not only sin, but unhealthy for society!

Thank you TMW, for covering the homoterrorism angle.

nanc said...

p.s. - i nearly forgot as an addendum to tmw's post - i'd much rather see sinners in church also. the people who truly believe there is nothing wrong with them are hard to deal with.

Justin said...


While I respect your beliefs I must disagree with what you said about why the canaanites were destroyed.

I think if you look you will find that through out every ancient civilization you will find that a large majority of people had many diseases of the same nature. It was epidemic in the new world as well.

I dont know where you got the reason from but it is totally unscriptual. And was not the reason G*D ordered their destruction.

According to the Book of Deutoronmy the reason is very clear.

When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations -- the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you --

2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons,

4 for they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods, and the LORD's anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you.

5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire. (Deut 7.1-5)

However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.

17 Completely destroy them -- the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites -- as the LORD your God has commanded you.

18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God. (Deut 20.16ff)

I will answer your other statements later as I must go for now.

nanc said...

everybody wants to justify their behavior. the straight and narrow included.

beakerkin said...


This is a family blog but I want to stress heterosexual couples do engage in the exact same acts gay people do. There is no behavior that gays can perform that straights do not perform as well.

I will not get into specifics but we need to lighten up a tad. Would many of you cast the same aspersions at those who engage in premarital or extramarital sex. Then there is the act that places hair on your palms.

Warren said...

I'll probably catch hell for this but I side with Justin and Beak.

Judge not lest you shall be judged, is a rejoinder that God will judge us by the same standards we judge others.

If there is no compassion in your heart, there might not be any for you.

Adultery, false witness, covetousness, used the Lords name in vain? You know the list.

On the final day all will be judged. Do you believe that your sins will be judged any less egregious that Justins?

Forgive me my sins, O Lord, forgive me my sins; the sins of my youth, the sins of my age, the sins of my soul, the sins of my body; my idle sins, my serious voluntary sins; the sins I know, the sins I do not know; the sins I have concealed for so long, and which are now hidden from my memory.

O My Jesus, forget and forgive what I have been. Amen.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

This is a family blog but I want to stress heterosexual couples do engage in the exact same acts gay people do.

Which is why God had the foresight to specifically state "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination"

God doesn't mind heterosexual expression (although red wings, anal sex, and adultery are no-nos). It's the sick shit He hates.

Justin said...

I think as we can see everyone is all over the place in how they interpert the word of G*D. While many purport to be christian they all have differences in how they see what is being said.

I will only say that there is so much good in the worst of us and so much bad in the best of us that it behooves none of us to judge any of us when it comes to the spiritual realm.

nanc said...

gays cannot procreate and the last time i looked, my husband didn't need a gynecologist. if this is a family blog, perhaps we should stay off the subject of gay and heterosexual behavior altogether? you brought it up, beak. if you don't want us talking about it, maybe you should stay away from the subject. just a suggestion.

The Merry Widow said...

Justin, the thing that bothers me, is that you are basically saying that what you have choosen to do is bigger than the G*D of Creation. Kill you?-NO, stone or shun you?-NO, treat you as a lesser being?-NO, speak to you civilly?-YES, treat you with dignity?-YES! I will leave your situation to G*D to deal with. That said, sexual immorallity was part of the "filling up with sin", notice I did not specify which kinds, it was a symptom of the whole diseased spiritual, mental and social order. The "detestable things" included human sacrifice, orgies and other sins.
warren- I'm not saying that Justin is going to Hell, all I'm saying is he is missing out on rewards in Heaven. Once saved, always saved, Justin is G*D's child, NO DOUBTING OF THAT! There has been tremendous wounding in every human heart, the question is, do you want to be healed?
Good morning and G*D bless!


Justin said...


I love the way you, who purports to be a christian quotes, and throws out Levitical Law to condemn that which you do not like. Yet I doubt sincerely that you keep the entire of the Levitical Law.

I realize you fear homosexuals and that is fine by me however, I will challenge you when you preach and judge picking and choosing only the laws that do not seeminly pertain to you. You judge others on Levitical Law and yet you do not practice the whole law yourself. That my friend is called hypocrisy.

As for me I will accept the Jesus in Matthew chapters 5-7. After all the final words are "and they were amazed at his authority and his doctrine.

I do not accept the Pauline gospel on which the Catholic Church was founded and Protestant Churches Preach to this day. So, I would guess that since Christian Churches still preach the Pauline Gospel and use the Bible as codified by the Catholic Church they are still Catholic at heart.
Do they still recite the Apostles Creed in your Church?

I have accepted and believe in the Messianic Jewish Faith. The understanding of Faith and mans relation to God is much more fruitful spiritually.

nanc said...

the rich part of this is that every one of us goes throughout each day bashing kerry, the muslim, baby killers, thieves and the like - and what gets us stirred up yet is off limits to judgment is the behavior of homosexuals - HAAAAAAAAAAA!! this is the funniest thought that has come to my mind this morning.

we hate islam and voice our hearty opinions each day somewhere in the www, but let's stfu about homosexuality! this is so good - the joke's on us.

Justin said...


No, I am not saying I have chosen, what person in their right mind would choose a life that is going to result in having heaped upon them scorn, bigotry, hatred and in some extreme cases even murder.

TM, let me clarify something here. Yes, I am gay however I do not go prowling the streets or to bars looking for sex.

That is the stereo type put out by churches,media and hollywood. What if the straight world were judged by what is seen in the media and hollywood? Would all straight people not be judged to be vile,immoral creatures who's lifestyle is despicable.

I am in a monogamous relationship, I have raised two of the most wonderful son's in the world both who are married and one who with his wife have given me one of the most beautiful Grand Babies in the world. I have two of the most wonderful daughter-in-laws any parent could ever ask for.

Do I promote Gay Marriage? No, that is a institution as old as civilization (going back to Naomi's Son and Ruth in the land of Moab.) itself and yes, I think it should be sacrosanct. Marriage is a religous union between one man and one woman. However, there were many contractual unions that had nothing to do with religion. And yes, I think the Government should stay out of that realm.

Do I promote civil rights for gay couples who have joined together in a monogamous relationship? Yes, I think that is a human right.

Do I beleive that gay people can have a relationship with G*D? Of course I do and I dare say that relationship is just as full filling as any straight relationship with G*D.

Do I think anyone myself included has the right to judge anyone else's life style scripturally? No, I think Jesus made it quite clear in Matthew Chapters 5-7 that I have more than enough to do working with my relationship with G*D with out trying to tell other people how to live and that they are sinners and going to hell.

He made it quite clear that I was not given the right to judge and I might just be suprised who is and who is not going to heaven.

TMW, let me say of all the post I read I will say I do value yours as highly as I value the Beaks post. Why? Because, I can read the sincerity and concern you put in your post. I can tell that you have truely a close relationship with your G*D and Jesus. You are not close minded yet you are stong in your beliefs and do not waiver. You like Beak, probably are one of the few among all of us who truely practices what you preach. The other opinon I trust is A.O.W.

G*D Bless and thank you for all your input and concern.

Justin said...


There is a big difference between muslim baby killers and homosexuals.

We, are not fighting just a war between a bunch of terrorist extremist. We are fighting a religious war. These find your life style totally repugnant and have decreed that you have to die because you do not follow the law so you are a infidel and therefore an abomination to G*D. Does judging by the law sound familiar?
However, these people practice what they preach. They will kill you simply because of your life style.

And yes there are groups right here in America who act on their beliefs and kill people simply because they are gay. Do you support groups like Fred and Shirley Phelps? They are just one step away from taking actions based on their beliefs.

No one is telling you to stfu you have your right to your opinion but others also have the right to be challenged on your opinion.

nanc said...

i thought we came to the conclusion that sin is not weighed? that murder is the equivalent of lying? what's it going to be? if you want ear candy - you're not getting it from me.

Justin said...


I look for ear candy from no one and I am not equivocating murder and lying in the same realm even tho the bible does.

I guess what I am asking is.
Do you (and not directed at you personaly) judge people who:

1.have been married/divorced/and remarried and are living in adultery.

2. people who do not believe in the same religion one practices?

3. people who have not accepted Jesus as their personal savior?

do you judge these people the same as you judge homosexuals?

do you apply the law equally to all peoples or just select the ones you think relevant to the times?

Since homosexuals have been around through out biblical history in all races. What would be the Christian's solution to deal with these people? Yes, I know it puts one in an uncomfortable spot to answer truthfully but, arent these all questions that should be asked?

beakerkin said...


I am going to post an R rated blog
but this is absurd. TABOO WARNING the next post will contain euphamisms and R rated material.

The next post will be people who live in stones should not throw glass houses. That was a malaprop but this will be a doozy.

Okay all of you well maybe not R but PG-13. I do not know if I have the heart to post R rated material.
I wish Rob was around for this one.

Bottom line is poeple have to be themselves. Humans are not perfect and we are making way to big a deal over something that is just not relevant.

All those who can not handle PG-13
material are forewarned.

nanc said...

we all judge everybody, justin! that's the hypocrisy of all of this. i have far more admiration in me for others than i don't. you protest too much.

beakerkin said...


Perhaps you and AOW should not read the next post. TMW was a scientist and may be able to handle euphamisms.

We are going PG-13

Justin maybe Warren, Elmer and yourself should sit out PG-13 material. I am going to reduce this material from R rated to PG-13
but the thesaurus will be needed.

Now some of you may think its funny
for me to post on ahem intimate matters. You are 100% correct as I lack a Vienese accent I have to struggle with this material. However if Dr Ruth can botch this so can I.

nanc said...

i'm not afraid of pg-13!

beakerkin said...

This may be quite amusing watchng
me post this material creatively.
Now only adults will be able to figure out this post anyway.

nanc said...

p.s. justin? i believe in forgiveness. if we spent more time asking for it, perhaps it would humble all of us.

The Merry Widow said...

Justin, no problemo! you and I agree on so much, let's celebrate that! Such as, G*D bless Israel and bring confusion and shame to their enemies! Also, you don't strike me as a casual relationship type! I couldn't even picture you patronizing such behavior, you're a Messianic type? Kewl! That's my kind of style! I am about to leave the church I'm at because they are going back to Egypt! shudder I spoke to 2 men of the church and the extent of spiritual blindness is appalling! G*D was not present and HIS Spirit was not in attendence! Ezekial 8-10 in the here and now, I could have just wept!
Beaker- as a bio major, yeah I can handle euphanisms. The discussions at dinner in college used to turn the engineers and buisness majors green, hehehe! I'll work with it!


Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...


Are you a homosexual right now, or just when you're in the act of having sex with other men?

No, this is not a trick question.

It is homosexual acts that God, according to Leviticus, finds an abomination.

What would be the point of God telling people he finds certain actions abominable if people had no control over their actions?

Do I keep everything in Leviticus? No, I don't (I just love bacon triple cheeseburgers, can't get enough of them), but I try to avoid doing actions God clearly stated were abominations to His sight and prescribed capital punishment for among those who claim faith in Him.

Note that the context of these laws, given to the Jewish people and their Christian disciples, do not command a crackdown on homosexuals outside the community of believers.

If you didn't claim Christianity, I wouldn't have a problem with your sphincter spelunking at all.

beakerkin said...

Mr Beamish

The key word is practicing. Well is someone isn't practicing they can't become an expert. How much practice does it take to become an expert. What don't want to become one well that is a defeatist attitude go out there and practice.

We can go around for ever on this one

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...


Are you ever going to master eating and drinking and breathing?

beakerkin said...

Mr Beamish

I should have a PHD in those subjects by now.

You can see the permutations of that joke.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

I meant that as as round and round forever reply ;)

beakerkin said...


I think you have one upped me at my own joke.

That is fairly good but nobody else will get that other then us.

nanc said...

think i'll go practice my golf swing...

Elmer's Brother said...

Beak, the first part of my comment was that God is the one to judge.

I have tried to use this analogy before so I'll try again. (the love the sinner but hate the sin) in the following:

Those of us with children can understand this concept. If our child behaves in a way that is inappropriate and they know it is inappropriate is it not part of our parental obligation to point this out to them? e.g. If they are going to cross the road in front of a moving truck would we not yell at them to stop? By pointing this out are we not loving them in a way that is meaningful? Would I be demonstrating my love for them if I let them get hit by a semi-truck? You can use an example of open rebellion here as well, but does it mean that I don't love my child? On the contrary my love for them is expressed in a way that I am trying to keep them from pain and furthere disobedience to me or to God in the future. I have gay and lesbian friends, they know I care for them. I have had friends that have cheated on their wives and I have pointed out to them the sinfulness of their behavior, much like if it was me I would expect the same from my true Christian friends.

As far as civil law Beak I understand the difference. I am not advocating applying my religious beliefs on someone who does not espouse being a Christian, but if someone shares my belief I feel that out of loveand in the most loving way that I would have to speak out. I would expect the same from any of my Christian brothers and sisters. I want them to point me in the right direction.

Justin you should know that I have respect for you and I would never treat you differently, condemn you or otherwise mistreat you because of your choice. Nor would I advocate others doing that as well.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...


It's a loyalty test. "Don't engage in homosexual sex" is one of those little things God uses to differentiate His from his.

Justin said...


I will no longer call you Mr. since that is a connotation of respect.

To play to your lacivious side and I know you are just drooling to know what my answer regarding your assinine question of practicing.

At a point in time sex becomes quite meaningless and love takes front and center in ones life. I do doubt that you would know much about love tho.

Now, had you read any of my post you would have found out that I do not as you call it practice sex. I seriously dont think what qualifies for sex to you much practice anyway.

As to your ideas on G*D's law I think you have proven your christianity is about as true as a tree post is a christian. You readily admit you judge by the law but you do not keep all of the law.

Now I am assuming that you follow the teachings of Paul who said that if you judge by the law you are judged by the whole of the law. Im sorry you can't cut and run and say well it applies only in these cases but not in mine.

Jesus, Peter, and Paul were very clear in the scripture about judging others.

Now, had you not claimed to be a christian I would not have a problem with your hypocritical bigoted lies at all.

I think this little tit for tat has gone on for long enough. You can live in your so called christianity slinging your vile repugnant descriptions of people that Im sure make you feel superior. :)

And no Beamish, do not even consider that you have won because you havent. I just think there are more important things in this world to consider and deal with.

nanc said...

anybody ever see that movie "liar, liar"? just curious.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

And no Beamish, do not even consider that you have won because you havent.

It's always about winning, isn't it?

Anonymous said...

Elmer's brother,

As I pointed out before, when the term Judge is used it refers to deciding guilt AND SENTENCING.

Yes only HE shall JUDGE. The rest of us should practice and teach each other as best we can POINTING OUT HIS LAWS AND HOW TO COMPLY WITH THEM HOW TO DISCERN HIS WILL!!!

In other words, the leftie idea that we can pretty much do what we want and it is only between them and HIM is BULL.


When they break a suggestion, a LAW, a COMMANDMANT?!?!?!

Don't we get hoisted by the logical extension that even TEACHING THE BIBLE IS TEACHING HATE SPEECH?!?!?

Who are we to tell anyone what his laws and commandments are!?!?!?!?

There is a difference between Judging, trying to help someone, nagging...

Also, spending all your time worrying about others sins when you are ignoring your own is obviously bad, unless you sin is, say, being rude, and the sin of the person you are trying to help is, say, ADULTERY.

We need to remember that teaching and pointing out the laws should be constructive and not just to attack the person. Or trying to elevate ourselves above them!!!

We were all taught and cajoled and measured by different means. How is one to learn if there is no teaching. If we are not taught discernment???

nanc said...

in our culture, anonymous, it is usually a jury who imposes sentence.

sorry, leftovers from my criminal justice days.

Anonymous said...

Sorry nanc, the Jury determines GUILT based on the evidence the Judge ALLOWS to be presented and the LAW as explained by the Judge. The JUDGE determines sentence based on what the defendant is determined to be guilty of, pleadings made by interested parties, and the ALLOWED OR MANDATORY sentences in the Law.

In Civil Cases the Jury can be asked to determine the amount of the award to the winner. Even here the Judge can overule the Jury and increase or decrease the amount.

Of course, the final preservation of our society is the FACT that the Jury can determine a defendant NOT GUILTY, or GUILTY, IN SPITE OF THE LAW AND EVIDENCE IF THEY SO CHOOSE. I know, most Judges and Attorney types will argue that is incorrect, but, they didn't create the system.

nanc said...

thank you, anonymous.

Elmer's Brother said...


I am not disagreeing with you, I think we are agreeing. We should point out sin that God has already judged but if someone is not a Christian they'll care less what you have to say. Especially the post modern generation. They would rather SEE how God has changed your life than for you to TELL them or for you to point out their sin. I am not advocating ignoring sin and not speaking up. My analogy with children points to speaking out and preventing someone from doing that very thing. Same as with any sin.

Anonymous said...


YOU ARE RIGHT. The Jury DOES set the sentence from the range given them by the judge even in Criminal cases!!!

The Judge can overrule this decision, but typically doesn't of course.

Only in non-jury trials does the Judge always do both functions.

I get soo ticked by the power the Judge has to manipulate the trial in choosing evidence and the actual presentation along with INSTRUCTIONS to the Jury... that I tend to overlook the actual procedure.

Anonymous said...


Yes, non-religious or other religion should be approached much more carefully if at all.

nanc said...

thank you, anonymouse.