Friday, May 20, 2005

Patriotic Dissent versus Paranoid and Bigoted

My position on the War on Iraq is well known to readers of this blog. I want to qualify for my readers and non readers my position on the antiwar movement. Unlike the typical prowar blog I am not a Conservative . Others may refer to me as a Conservative and the term is relative. Compared to a far left lunatic I am considered conservative.

There are ways to dissent on the war on terror and still be a patriot. The point is
that the correct form of dissent is rare. Liberals get upset when I point to the excesses of the left. Liberals also get upset when I point to the perpetual misguided
rage of the left. The point is if you can not talk to a moderate like myself you will
never get back in power.

1 Proper Dissent - I do not agree with the war in Iraq it is not the best way to handle terrorism. The terrorist problem can be resolved better by doing x. Lets get out of Iraq and bring the troops home.
Not a dissent I agree with but patriotic.

2A Unpatriotic Dissent - Any association with groups led by Communists such as Code Pink and Answer. Any discussion with a proven seditious movement that has caused
the death of 100,000,000. The issue is terrorism not Capitalism and much of the anti-
war movement is thinly diguised anti Capitalism .

2B Blame America first crowd . This part is comedic because it is a tactic used by Zinn etc. However when we apply the exact same model on Islam the left cries racist
except that Arab, Muslims and Palestinians do not qualify as a race. Thus the left
loves to play this game but when the tactic is extended to its logical conclusion it is unfair. If indict a group by its history is acceptable on Western Civilizations then Islam and every other group shall be judged similarly. The ironic part is that this is a Marxist perspective on history and the followers of Marx are responsible for 100,000,000 deaths.

3 Bigotry and Conspiracy Cranks.
Recidivist 5/19/05 " On the subject of the war in Iraq and the whole fascist Judea- Neocon war on terror fraud.

This is anti American bigoted and laced with conspiratoral thinking.This brings up
standard anti- semitic cannards of dual loyalty and the cabal of Jews trying to rule
the world. A similar discussion of a conspiracy involving a velvet Mafia by conservatives would be dismissed as Crank talk and bigotry. The failure of liberals to adress this issue is amazing. I have zero doubt that the majority of liberals are
not anti- semites. I know Kafkaesq and B are not anti- semites but it would be nice to hear them adress the issue.

The portrayal of religious Christians as less intelligent or brainwashed. This is standard fare among some liberals . There was a disturbing amount of bigotry aimed at
the new Pope in familiar blogs. The teachings of any Church belong to the Clergy and members of the Church . There are many interpretations of every scripture and for outsiders to lecture the Church on its teachings is arrogance and bigotry. If you
do not agree with the positions find a Church or religion more suited to yours or fight from within.

My position on the treatment of Gays in society is a Civil matter. I do not wish to live in a country where they are persecuted. However I also do not wish to live in a Country where kids are taught about homosexuality in the second grade. The context should also be respect for difference rather then graphic sexual technique. I also do not wish to live in a culture where the government lectures churches on theology.
I do find it interesting that some of the loudest voices on the Christian position towards Gays say zero about Islamic teachings. In fact they say next to zero when
sermons advocating the killing of Jews, Christians ,Gays etc are translated by MEMRI. The usual cry is Islamophobia at the mention of those speeches.

I have recently been hearing anti India and Hindu themes . The usual cries are the BJP is the new Likud. Hiduism is a racist religion and is barbaric. India is stealing alll the tech jobs. This nascent bigotry is new on the left and surprised me. I guess adding Hindus to the list of accepted bigotries is a form of multiculturalism. However if one sneezes in the direction of Islam that is bigotry.

The Bush equals Hitler bit is standard bigotry. Intelligent Liberals run from it but
our friend in the UK seems to run towards this. We can disagree on policy and one can safely say the president is a bad man, I disagree. There are no extermination camps. There has been zero attempts to mass convert the population . There has been zero attempt to permanetly occupy the country. Once the nations have armies and can stand on their own we will depart.

The equivocation of those on the left of Bush and Osama as equals. Osama killed 3000 Americans in a sneak attack . This act was aimed at Civilians who were going to work.
I am an eye witness to 9-11 and seeing people drop from the WTC has given me a another perspective. I also survived WTC 93 a blast that was tied back to Saddam. Ramzi Youssef worked with Iraqi intelligence and is bin Al Sheebs of Al Qeda's nephew. The fact is Clinton did zero about WTC 93 but this is not his fault. The path to WTC leads to the Kahane assassination and Bush 1. The refusal to dig into wider networks to assure that the public was safe seems to be a multi administration
failing. The PC brigades are reponsible for this failing. We learned the wrong lesson from the Cold War our enemies hid behind red baiting. In the 9-11 age added scruitiny on Muslims is reality. Where should we look for terrorists Nascar races,
Senior citizen centers , Buddhist temples, Rap Concerts ,Star Trek conventions or Mosques. The reality is that we are facing Islamic Radicalism and the answer is obvious. We should also look at those on the far left with more scruitiny. My usage of the term far left does not include liberals but the Reds, Anarchists some of the Greens. Many former Communists call themselves Greens or Progressives.

The profusion of conspiracy cranks who run around blaming everone for 9-11 except Osama . Most of the suspects in these conspiracy theories are Jews. The whole discussion Bush lied and war for oil are a step above. Every intelligence agency has the same estimate on WMD including the French, Russian,Israeli , Egyptian and the WMD were likely moved to Syria that has had chemical weapons from the 70's. The fact that Syria and Egypt both have had Chemical weapons for such a long time is ignored
by idiots like 167. Egypt allegedly used Chemical weapons in the Yemen civil war in the 60's.

I have discussed the bigotry and the communists on liberal sites. The response is the
expected denial. My advice to the liberals from a moderate.

1 Ditch the Communists and disavow any association. Code Pink and Answer are Communist led get them out of your protests and keep them away from the democratic party.

2 Loose the anger and try to talk like lucid people. People do not listen to foul mouthed angry voices. You don't like the war in Iraq is a far cry from Bush = Hitler.

3 Clean up your mess with bigotry in your ranks. The portrayals of the Pope and Religious Christians is bigoted and arrogant. The word games with Jews and Zionism should cease. The second we start talking about cabals you have veered into bigotry.
The Iraq war has zero to do with Israel . If srael were the motivator Iran,Saudi Arabia, Syria and Lebanon (Hezbollah) would rank higher.

4 Come up with an alternate plan for dealing with Terrorism. Law enforcement and diplomacy failed. The denial or minimization of the problem does not work.

5 End this PC foolishness that may get us killed. There is a problem and it comes from a certain area. Denial of obvious realities may get us killed. Lack of human rights and the cult of low expectations for Muslim countries are another form of bigotry (not race as Muslims and Arabs are not a race)

6 Human rights come from the Constitution focus your gay rights issues there. Complaining about Church teachings is arrogant and a waste of time.

7 Avoid the reflexive America is the focus of the world evils bit . Avoid blame America first reaction

8 If the Zinn historical model used on Islam is bigotry do not use it on Western Civ
or American History.

9 Stop telling us what people think overseas . Tell us what you think.

10 When people make anti American statements stand up for your country. I do not agree with this policy but your assesment of this a typical American behavior is wrong.


Esther said...

GREAT post. Especially liked:

The point is if you can not talk to a moderate like myself you will never get back in power.

If the Dems learn anything else, this is what they need to know and take to heart. Well said!

beakerkin said...

I am growing discouraged about the democrats. There are good liberals
but they need to speak up.

Elijah said...

If i'm not mistaken it was Pinochet who put down the marxist movement in Chile. Ironic he would later be branded a war criminal considering as you say the millions that have died under thier ideology. Stalin himself killed millions more than hitler.
Good ol'uncle Joe.
I can only imagine what Kim over there in Korea has done. I am sure the truth will come out eventually about that creepy regime.

beakerkin said...


I find this odd that liberals get all bent out of shape on the Communism issue.They scream and yell that we are being lumped together.

The problem is that when 250,000
people organized by communist
protested in NYC there were DNC shirts everywhere.

My advice hold your own protests
and tell the Communists at Code Pink and Answer to get lost. The enemy of my enemy is not my friend.
The Liberals should learn that.

Elijah said...

I guess a lot of people just like a cause, without really knowing the facts. For me I am thankful of the U.S presence in the middle east. It is amazing how many people still get sucked into that kind of thinking. I have a copy of Mao's little red book I found at a used bookstore. I bought it as a novelty.It was printed in reads
Canada is a colony of U.S Imperialism.To end our exploitation, to build a new canada, where the people hlod the power..blah blah..dedicated to the achievement of independance and socialism, this is the aim of the...CANADIAN LIBERATION MOVEMENT.
I laughed out loud when i read this stamped on the back page.

beakerkin said...

The problem I have with liberals is that they just do not understand the damage the far left
does to them. They do not understand that their participation
in a march organized by Communists
is wrong.

There are good liberals but they are going to have to say enough.
The problem is that when one points
to the blame America first reflex
they get annoyed.

The fact that a good liberal can read " but on the subject of the fascist Judea- American Neocon war on terror" and not object is a problem. I had several liberals read that. One said the author was ignorant. A second said nothing and a third said it was Zionism not Jews. I pointed out the full quote was read in its entirety by
plenty of non Jews who were unanimous. Sadly the words of 167
point to the problem. They give way
too much lattitude to the extreeme left.

The liberals will not be in power
any time soon.

kajando said...

The firs step for the democrats should be to get Ted Kennedy to stop calling black people "neanderthals"

beakerkin said...

Democrats let him go on manslaughter so I won't hold my breath

bum from jersey said...

I disagree with some of what you said. First, I know its your blog but I think its unfair to say Democrats do this and Republicans do that. The fact of the matter is most Americans are somewhere in between and not at the two polar opposites.

Your point on Blame America first and Capitalism, while I understand I don't think covers all the viewpoints. I don't think people are against capitalism, but you have to remember the essence of capitalism is free trade where everyone has the opportunity to participate in the marketplace. In the rebuilding of Iraq, that was not the case as only certain companies were allowed. Also, their is still a lot of speculation of what were the true motives we went into Iraq. I am not saying I buy into all of it but I certainly believe there are those in government who saw the Iraq War as a chance for profit rather than a liberation movement or even a dethroning of an evil dictator. We do business with ruthless dictators everyday yet we don't seem to have a problem them as long as they open up their markets to US business. There is more I disagree with but I am at work and I am a bum, so combined I am super lazy. Interesting post though.

bum from jersey said...

oh and by the way, if there is no (or as you put it 'rare') proper way of dissent, why not just support communism or a dictatorship? this way we make it official that you cannot disagree with government.

beakerkin said...

Bum from Jersey

There is patriotic dissent and unpatriotic dissent. Plenty of liberal are patriots but they make some errors.

People are judged by the company one keeps . Thus allowing seditious treasous partiesin your protest clutters the message. The message is Iraq stay on topic. Mumia Jammal is not the subject nor is KFC or Capitalism . This hurts the protesters.

Blame America first is certainly a leftist reaction. I am unconcerned with Osama's reason Our country was attacked and now it is time to die.

The talk of war profiteers is silly
and is a Marxist line from the
60's. We paid the price and the allies should get the contracts.

bum from jersey said...

i don't doubt that some liberals take it too far and don't stay on point but there are plenty who argue based on the merits as well.

i still think the profit of war is a legitimate argument. as a human being i pray it wasn't the primary reason but i can understand it and see it as being a reason.

sure we paid the price but thats not the point. capitalism is about an open market and we closed it. thats not true capitalism. you, me, whoever can say who should be able to participate and who shouldn't but the fact is capitalism calls for an open market where everyone is allowed ot participate. capitalism isn't about who should participate, its about who could participate.

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