Monday, May 02, 2005

Is the Left Angry ???

I do interact with Liberals on other boards and a point of dispute is my depiction of Liberals as angry and self righteous. I happen to like the liberals I interact with on other boards and I wish more of them would join the discussion. Contary to popular belief I do not hate the man with the 167 IQ. I also do not hate rabid dogs or psychotic people either.

One of the great boards I visit is a good site called the Disgruntled Chemist. Unlike
the Recidivist he has an open forum like we do here. He is equaly commited to free speech as we are here. Yet his blog features over the top posts like "The President is a Pussy" and a recent link to a post I fked Coulter in the tail. He has called the
GOP the party of god in his blog. He also talks about paranoid Conservaties in a reference to David Horowitz. This is not an attack on the Chemist who I respect as a
blogger and as a person. He is passionate on his side of the aisle and is every bit
the patriot that I am. However both of us disagree with the vision of what we want America to be. Most of the liberals who post on his forum are great people that I like but disagree with.

Some on his forum are upset because I characterize the left as angry. I stand by that depiction and say look at your own blogs seriously. Today the Disgruntled Chemist gives Arnold Shwartzenger the middle finger for supporting the minute men. The serious issue of immigation control and reform boiled down to a digit. The Chemist is capable of thought provoking commentary it is sad he choses to lower the
conversation.

The other topic is my depiction of the left as typified by the Peace protesters. Notably, nobody was in a rush to defend the week long temper tantrum in NYC at the RNC. The woman next door was a senior citizen and she was terrified to leave her appartment.She had survived Kristalnacht and the out of control mob brought back memories. When she left to get groceries brave facists started to harass her shouting
antisemitic slurs. NYPD escorted her home and the protesters were moved on. The protesters attempted to bait the cops. I witnessed one protester throwing an object at the police and trying to escape into the crowd. The police aprehended the suspect but a mob demanded his release. The police held firm and won the battle of wills. The protesters spat on and threw shoes at anti abortion activists and born again Christians. They must believe in the Recidivists axiom free speech as long as I agree
with you.

Not covered by the press was the role of the observers. The National Lawyers guild was supposed to be observers. They were reporting movements of the police to protest organizers in Union Square Park . If there were justice this group would be fined for there role in the mayhem.

The problem for the left is that they think that my depiction of them as angry based upon their blogs and the protesters is unfair. The fact was that Kerry campaign workers were in the crowd and numerous DNC shirts were visable. The small number of protesters for the Schaivo case make this an absurd comparison. Some of you think the reaction of my nephew is unfair. However unlike me he is a self described liberal and his blog has zero political content. He noticed the anger and is facing the choice I faced 20 years ago.

Twenty years ago I was and still am a social liberal but I am a Cold Warrior . The battle against Communism was a serious matter that even today some do not acknowledge. Sadly, the myths of the Vietnam era are in our popular history textbooks.Myth number one is that the antiwar protesters were popular.This is absolutely not true and many older radicals are flumoxed trying to peddle this myth to people like myself . The leaders of the movement were self promoters who employed fake veterans and lied in fake hearings. The legacy of the anti war movement is 30 years of authoritarian repression in Vietnam,Killing Fields , Boat People and Re -education camps.

Not content with selling out the Vietnamese the same cast of dupes tried this routine in Central America. A proto Communist government came to power in Nicaragua
and Reagan was determined to roll Communism back.This is when I first heard of John Kerry and Senator Harkin. They were among the authors of ther Dear Comondante letter
asking Ortega to cool his jets on the Communism. Ortega rewarded Kerry's faith by going to Moscow two days after Contra aid was suspended.

The left used a whole bunch of front grouds to white wash the Sandanistas and the Communist Rebels.Noticeable in this plethora of Communist front groups was Cispes.Today we have the same people setting up Front groups to hide their agendas.
Code Pink , International Answer and the ISM are cover for Communists to manipulate
larger mass movements. This is why when you march in a peace protest you may be endorsing the agenda of the organizers. I spoke with hundreds of protesters and maybe two or three knew the names Lelie Cagan or Medea Benjamin. This is not to say that everyone who is in the antiwar movement is a Commie . However , their presence and domination of the movement dicredits the legitamacy of such protests.

My nephew is starting to notice the anger and acceptance of Joooooo and Christian bigotry. The fact is that much of the left hides the bigotry by playing word games with Zionism. In fact the next time anyone questions my assesment of a problem kindly read the Recidivists blog post Simon Jones. Joooooooos percieve gentiles as the enemy. Joooooos are responsible for polution and allienation.Americans are defacto Jooooooos .Joooooooos control the world.

In reality my nephew may conclude what I did twenty years ago. The democratic party
and the rational left need a clean break . They have permitted people into their ranks that do not belong there. Their coziness with anti-american,seditious communist
and bigoted elements has done this country a great disservice. It is time for the Democrats to decide what they want to be. Do they want to be greens then fine ?

The truth is people like John Kerry created the Neocon movement. The original Neocons were anticommunist liberals. The obstructionism of Kerry, Harkin, Tip Oniell
in the Cold War pushed the movement into Reagans big tent. The Democrats are fooling
themselves if they think the antics of the far left does not hurt them .

The self rigteous attitude and gloom and doom rhetoric are creating an irrelevancy
to the left. It is easy to blame Fox news and Limbaugh for brainwashing the masses.
The harder thing is to look in the mirror at what the left has devolved into. Call me insensitive but I care more about what shoppers say in a Walmart in North Dakota
then the bloviations in the salons of Paris. Calling me a Cowboy is not an insult as cowboys were men of action . I do not aspire or wish to be European as I am an American. Much of the Anti Americanism is thinly disguised anti capitalism. I am proud to be an American and if you have a problem with it that is up to you.

31 comments:

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Frankly I'm sick of "liberals" who try to play off their Communist credentials as "honest disagreement." John Kerry's "Vietnam Veterans Against War" and "Vietnam Veterans of America" groups are documented front groups of the Communist Party USA. Check out the open FBI files at wintersoldier.com - there is no denying the ties, they were housed in the same office space and coordinated by the same people.

For 30 years we have tolerated Communist collaborators in our midsts under the aegis of "respecting alternative viewpoints."

In a more enlightened age, these people would have been shot as traitors.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

I guess that makes me an "angry right-winger."

Anonymous said...

It makes you just another fucking fascist pig, just like Beakerscum.

beakerkin said...

Anonymous.
Do you notice I have not censored you ? Compare this with the Recidivist who is the sole arbiter of truth. Now tell me who is more facist.



Gee I guess this is what passes for articulate debate. Thank you
for illustrating my point.

Mr Beamish

The reality is that Kerry and his kin won a battle but they lost the war. People like myself were pushed into the Republican ranks.
Until the left purges itself of the totalitarians and Communists it is doomed to irrelevancy.

Jason_Pappas said...

How true. The Left – the Far Left – has seen their ideal of a worker's paradise go up in smoke (not that any real worker wanted that crap). Country after country that tried to create socialist utopia only to descend into a hell of torture and mass slaughter: 100 million dead, in total. The only thing they have left is their hatred – for America, Capitalism, and anything that is labeled “Western.”

I, too, hope that the moderate Left disassociates themselves from the crazies. I think they will. Jimmy Carter ran as a conservative Democrat if you remember his campaign. Bill Clinton ran as a “new” Democrat. McGovern/Dukakis/Mondale/Gore/Kerry are dead ends.

Now, Chuck Schumer is a respectable Democrat. Sure, I think he wants to spend too much but he’s a Democrat and I'm not. However, he’s firm on defense. Sometimes he’s even tougher than Bush (on Saudi Arabia, on spending for border/shipping detection, etc.) Schumer for President? And why not?

beakerkin said...

The Saudis were swearing about Schumer on meet the press. He has hit a raw nerve but it looks like Hilary expects a coronation. John Kerry plans another run and there are rumors of Gore and Edwards.

The best bet for the Dems is Govenor Richardson of New Mexico. He is a Centerist and a hispanic but is too practical to get the nomination.

kafkaesq said...

Why all the obsession with the Cold War, Communism and one protest event? Why do you leave out everything else? Because you have to in order to paint your twisted picture of what a "liberal" is.

The picture you paint is fantasy, it doesn't exist! I know you'd like to believe that liberals are all commie-sympathizing hate-America types, but you're dead wrong.

That's like me calling all conservatives abortion clinic bombing, gay hating, KKK racists who want to kill all racial minorities and bomb every country who doesn't agree with the US. That's not true of most conservatives, at least I can admit it.

How about you, and your self proclaimed angry conservative follower?

On the angry topic at the other blog-

Look, I think that when Hannity, Limbaugh and O'Reilly YELL at people and get red in the face, they're angry. Maybe to you that's just "tough interviewing."

Personally, I think you need to open your mind to things outside the right-wing bubble you live in.

Jason_Pappas said...

Kafka, buddy, if you read carefully, both Beak, I & others have carefully differentiated the far left from the moderates.

But what’s really funny about your post is this silly notion that we live in a right-wing bubble. Both Beak and I live in New York City!

beakerkin said...

Kafka

As Jason pointed out I live in NYC and I was under siege fir five days. I regularly encounter communists and extreemists who have burrowed their way into the mainstream.

I know that you and the Chemist are decent people and I have always praised you personaly. You are a decent patriotic liberal and
a good person,

If you think I am making this up wear a Yarmulke to a peace protest.
There is a decided problem and by
not looking at it objectively you
are compounding the problem.

The left has devolved into one long rant. Do you think what I have done here is worse then the Chemist. The piece on Coulter was a disgrace. I guess you are a good
guy but get outraged when your OX is gored.

That temper tantrum in NYC was a disgrace.

kajando said...

yea, guys. let up. Communism only killed 100 million people. Why the obsession? Putin still pines for the way things were. Those were the good old days (well except in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, and how many others--to those citizens of planet Earth, the old days weren't so good).
You may dislike the current administration, but you can speak out against them. Under communism and other totalitarian regimes you risk your life to speak. Here you can vote against the republicans(well...unless you live in a Diebold state), so, I guess, most of us can still vote against them if we want.

beakerkin said...

There is a double standard about the left. If the KKK organized and participated in an event I would be out there protesting against the KKK

Yet we are supposed to say well the fact that the Peace Protests are organized by Code Pink is a coincedence.The fact that Code Pink was founded by a Communist is an inconnvenience. It is time for decent liberals like Kafka to clean house.

Kafka have you read the Simon Jones post on the Recidivists blog.
Tell me I forced his hand Joooos cause air polution.Tell me you think my assesment was wrong.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

The picture you paint is fantasy, it doesn't exist! I know you'd like to believe that liberals are all commie-sympathizing hate-America types, but you're dead wrong.

Well, I did leave out the part about smearing shit on your skin and calling it art our taxes should promote.

I must be high on my Rush Limbaugh-approved painkillers. What else do liberals believe in?

Warren said...

Lets talk about Liberalism and those who still use the label, Liberal.

Merriam-Webster Online:
Main Entry:
Function: noun
1 : the quality or state of being liberal
2 a often capitalized : a movement in modern Protestantism emphasizing intellectual liberty and the spiritual and ethical content of Christianity b : a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard c : a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race,of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties.


Seeing that the college campuses are run by self proclaimed "Liberals" who do everything in their power to promote far left ideas and stifle Conservative voices; I think we can throw intellectual liberty out the door.

Spirituality and ethical content of Christianity? Don't make me laugh! They do everything in their power to disparage Christians, (and Jews), while elevating Islam and giving it moral equivalence. That in itself is a way to disparage the religious.

A theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard.
I asked you not to make me laugh!

A political philosophy based on belief in progress? What progress? For 40+ years the "Liberals" ran this country. Progress in education? The average "Liberal Arts" degree holder is a stupid twit fit only to teach in a "Liberal Arts" school. High schoolers think New Mexico is in Mexico and grade schoolers think that London is a country.

Social progress? 60+ years of New Deal and we have more people in "poverty" than ever. If "Liberalism" worked, don't you think we might have put a dent in it by now?

I deleted a bunch of my post, I became too worked up. If other points come up, I'll Fisk them ruthlessly!

kafkaesq said...

I'd wear a Yarmulke if I thought I could do it justice. Does dating Jewish girls count? ;)

Liberalism is about progress. It's about change for the better. The New Deal was a liberal experiment at using gov't resources to get out of the Great Depression. Because of WWII, we'll never know how much New Deal policies contributed to the economic boom, but most of its policies have survived to this day. Labor unions have made huge progress for workers. Social Security has been a huge success. The reason it's going insolvent (in 40+ years) is our deficit spending. If you maxed all your credit cards out today and lived on debt you'd be insolvent in a few years too! That's how our country has been run since Bush took office. Many Democrats would do the same. There seem to be no economic conservatives in power any longer. I'm just making this point to head off any Social Security attacks...

Conservatism is not taking chances, it's the assumption that things don't need to change, that we should look to the past for guidance.

My bubble comment refers to your state of mind, not your current locale.

Beaker, there are double standards on the right as well. Many of the same "right to life" conservatives who are anti-abortion promote violence against doctors who are legally performing the procedure. How's that for a double standard? I admit that there are some liberals who think Israel is so ruthless against the Palestinian people that they seem anti-semetic. That's too bad. Just don't pretend those types represent liberalism because they don't.

I hope this responds to everyone up there.

kafkaesq said...

P.S.- my point about commie obsession is ...

1. The Cold War ended 15 years ago. Find a new boogie man.

2. Communism doesn't necessarily equal the USSR, Stalin, PRC, etc. It's simply a philosophy based on everyone being treated equally. Isn't it true that some of the Jews in the Bible lived in communes, where everyone shares? Don't some Hassidic Jews still do so in Israeal today? Commune = communism. See, it doesn't have to always be bad! Certainly the form of gov't practiced in the USSR wasn't so great.

kafkaesq said...

Warren-

I think you have some research to do if you think our economy is worse of in 2005 than it was in 1931.

Hint: google "hoovervilles"

You want liberal progress? Okay...

Civil Rights Act
Social Security Act
Wagner Act (unions)
Sarbanes-Oxley (corporate reform, bipartisan)
Clean Air Act
Clean Water Act
National Park System
The Peace Corps
FEMA (Jeb & the people of FL sure are greatful, thanks FDR!)

beakerkin said...

Kafkaesq

I have always made the distinction
between responsible liberals like
yourself and AC Patriot from the seditious variety. I have even praised the Chemist who has been irresponsibile in his rhetoric . Did you complain about his paranoid conservative bit or Party
of God routine.

As far as Antisemitism it is virulent and one need look no further then your friend the Recidivist. Read the article he linked to Simon Jones. Joooos cause
air polution ,call gentiles the enemy are some of the highlights.He has also run the Cannard Jooooos stole the Holocaust
The Palestinian issue is a moot point. You can read his response to
a list of nations with a worse Freedom House rating. How Dare you
......

There is a serious problem Kafka
and I did not make the Yarmulka remark in jest. The next time there
is a protest wear a Yarmulke and
walk over and say hello. You will
hear cannards that go well beyond Israel. Jews blew up the WTC, Jews
own the media, Jews are the Bolsheviks.

This is in addition to the slurs against fundamentalist Christians.
They are called brain washed stupid
people who want to impose theocracy. Yet I have never heard a single bigoted word in a Church.

Communism is still with us but some
of its adherents call themselves Greens. The Cold War did not end
the sedition. Leslie Cagan and Madea Benjamin are prominent antiwar activists and Communists.
If you can get a copy of the Vennona Papers you will see the lies of the left still being said today are refuted by KGB archives.
The Communist party USA was subsidized by Moscow . The money was used to create front groups and infilyrate others. International ANSWER and Code Pink
are classic front groups.

Not one of the conservatives I know
would ever march in a protest organized by the KKK. In fact we would be out there kicking KKK tail. The Facts are the KKK never killed 1/10000 of the people that
communists did. Conservatives have no problem distancing themselves from extreemism.

A Kibbutz is not Communism in the same sense. They are a small scale
opperation and every year there are fewer of them in Israel. They
do not go around talking aboutMarx
either. Nor do they talk about Re Education camps. This small scale
venture does not validate a movement directly responsible for
100,000,000 deaths. Nor does it reedem its seditious adherents in the USA.

You are forgeting as a Rudy Republican I am a social liberal.
I understand the progress of the New Deal. Yet I can not stand by while seditious elements are tolerated. Who created Neocons Kafka and why are they Republicans ?Neocons were liberals
who left the ranks of the Democrats
because Communists were and still are appeased on that side of the aisle. People like Leslie Cagan,
Madea Benjamin and Michael Lerner
have no place in a legitamate movement. You can appease them but for every one follower you get you loose four people like my nephew.

kajando said...

Communism is dead? Somebody better tell Putin, because he sounds like he’s pining for the good old days. Ever heard of the Communist Party USA? How about ANSWR? Communism is not dead, and will live so long as the “movable” allow themselves to be led by the “immovable”.

Civil Rights? Dude, get real. The Democrats were the major obstacle blocking the Civil Rights Act in the 60s (and even for decades before that). Sen. Robert Byrd (D), former clansman and Albert Gore Sr. led the opposition. Out of bigotry and a fear the Republicans would gain inroads with blacks; 21 Senators from the Democratic Party voted against the Act—there were only 27 total “nays”. Mark June 10th on your calendars, this year will be the 41st Anniversary of Robert Byrd’s 14+ hour filibuster to prevent the Senate from voting on the Civil Rights Act. Back then they really had to filibuster, not like our girlie senators now who can just say “oooh, I’m going to filibuster; let’s go to lunch”. Byrd actually spoke for 14 hours and 13 minutes. There’s your champion of civil rights and “conscience of the Senate”.

Social Security, sure, it’s a swell idea that makes us feel good. And it would probably be fine, if our fine Senators hadn’t, hmmmm what’s the phrase…..oh yeah. Spent all the friggin money—since the 70’s the budget has included any surplus SS funds. In 2000 Al Gore wanted to put Social Security in a “lockbox”, which is laughable, because what he should have said was “BACK in the lockbox”. Shutting the barn door after the horses are already gone. Social Security is really more about Senate Security than about a social safety net. They spend the money on pork barrel projects to get themselves re-elected, and by the time the money runs out, they’ll just be a page in the Senate historical record.

On the environment and fair business practices; sure that’s what the government is best suited for, constraining industry to promote the general welfare. Not to provide the general welfare but to promote.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Many of the same "right to life" conservatives who are anti-abortion promote violence against doctors who are legally performing the procedure.

Many? How many? Any household names here?

Try my "many" on for size:

Many liberals are blithering idiots.

kafkaesq said...

Kajando-

The Southern "Democrats" of the 60s you refer to are all now Republicans. They defected to the GOP when the rest of the Democrats rejected their racism. The GOP welcomed them with open arms. Remember Nixon and Reagan's Southern Strategy. Taking advantage of racism and intolerance in general (gays) is how the GOP operates, plain and simple.

Strom Thurmond led the charge against the Civil Rights Act. He's the one who filibustered against it for 24 hours, he hated blacks so much.. He ran for President on a segregation ticket. YOUR party honored him time and time again, never sorry for the racism he promoted. Trent Lott, a top leader of your party praised Thurmond and his racism openly. The GOP even then embraced them both...until public outcry forced Lott to step down from his leadership position. But your party still supports him.

Get your facts straight.

Care to address my points on SS? Namely, the fact that Bush is the biggest spender of all, turning a surplus into a deficit overnight. Then, as if we can afford it, starts killing the federal fisc with more tax cuts, while claiming we're in a war and need to control spending. Dishonest and laughable. Bush himself has created this "crisis" of SS.

We can debate whether SS is a good idea in this day and age at all, but the facts are clear- the "crisis" only exists because Bush wants it to.

kafkaesq said...

Mr. Beamish-

My point about abortion clinic bombers (if you were honest and put it into context) is that there are extremists on both sides. You're just plain ignorant if you pretend that your side is never wrong.

There are websites that blame the Jews for everything and claim to be liberals, but there are also websites that advocate the murder of doctors and judges by those who claim to be conservatives and Christians.

Beaker likes to inflate the significance of antisemetic liberals. I was trying to put things in perspective.

beakerkin said...

Kafka

Have you read the Recidivist seriously ? You have a genuine anti
Semite in front of you. You guys let him play word games with Zionist but do you read his blog.

Are you going to tell me what I see
in NYC. Jason also lives here and sees the same thing ? He isn't Jewish so is he imagining it as well.

Do you mean to tell me I imagined an 80 plus year old woman hounded by a crowd and being called a "Jew Bitch". Do you mean to tell me I did not hear a gathering of a thousand leftists on the Saturday after 9-11 blame Israel and the Jews for the 9-11 attack.

The fact is there is a decided problem and it is no exageration. I have not been told by Pat Robertson that Jews stole the Holocaust or created polution and alienation.

I have nothing but respect for you
personaly. Do you think I treat the left worse then the Chemist treats the right.

What was my reaction to a poster that gay bashed on my blog. I took care of it rather quickly. In fact I would have done the same for any group. I hate to break the news to you there is way more bigotry on the left then on the right. Start reading the Christian and regigious right bashing on familiar blogs.

The fact that you are an admirable
person as is everyone who posts at the Chemist site with one exception
doesn't change reality. Have I called the Democratic party the Party of treason ? You do not object when the Chemist calls the GOP the party of God. Have I expressed profanity at any liberal
figure? Yet you didn't seem to object to the piece "I fk Ann Coulter in the tail or the President is a Pussy and the middle finger at Schwartzeneger on the Chemist."

If we were in a court you would have no case. However if your friend Amicus wishes to represent
me on the Angry Liberals bit I would love to have a mock trial.
My assertion that Liberals are angry and bigoted vs the Chemist paranoid conservative charge.

You can even hold it on your blog.

beakerkin said...

Kafka

What racism and bigotry are you refering to in the GOP ? Are you refering to people who talk about Jesusland and joining Canada. Do you read and listen to the hysteria about religious conservatives.I hear them regularly
depicted as brain washed Faux news
watchers.

As far as gays Civil Unions were never offered. The question of why school districts need to adress homosexuality as early as the first grade is a serious question.
There is a difference between teaching tollerance ( I favor) and brainwashing. The subject is adressed in the first grade in NYC.

I see plenty of Antisemitism on the left. You may pretend that people like your aquaintence the Recidivist are motivated by seeking
fair treatment for the Palestinians.But claims that Jews stole the Holocaust and created polution make that absurd.

You can pretend a five day temper tantrum 250,000 people didn't happen but I was there. I saw the naked Anti Semitism and plenty of DNC buttons.

You may also pretend Code Pink and
Answer have no communists in them and have zero conection to the democratic party.You can also pretend that the National Lawyers guild has no history as a communist front group.

Where are these bigots you are talking about. Falwell and Robertson make goofy statements but Chomsky , Moore ect are far worse bordering on sedition.

I do admire your courage and integrity.

Warren said...

Kafkaesq,

I think you have some research to do if you think our economy is worse of in 2005 than it was in 1931.

Never said that, I was talking about actual numbers of "poor".

You want liberal progress? Okay...

Civil Rights Act

Which wouldn't have passed without Republicans.

Social Security Act
Non-viable ponzi scheme as it is set up now.

Wagner Act (unions)
Unions have become another big business and now representing, mainly, government employees who featherbed worse than any railroad union ever hoped.

Sarbanes-Oxley (corporate reform, bipartisan)
Exactly, bipartisan.

Clean Air Act
Richard Nixon.

Clean Water Act
A "Great Society" program. Interesting that you would pick this particular one out of all those other "Liberal" programs.

National Park System
Teddy Roosevelt

The Peace Corps
Feel good do nothing program.

FEMA (Jeb & the people of FL sure are greatful, thanks FDR!)
Needs restructured, topheavy in bureaucrats.


You seem to miss my point, you are using the word liberal when that label has been co-opted by the far left. There is nothing liberal about them and the people know known as Conservatives, do not fit the construction you have formed for them.

You also fail to mention that the largest portion of deficit spending occurs in the area of social programs and entitlements.

You take offense when we talk about Liberals but that label has been stolen from you. You do not own it anymore.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

My point about abortion clinic bombers (if you were honest and put it into context) is that there are extremists on both sides. You're just plain ignorant if you pretend that your side is never wrong.

Kafkaesq, you said "many of the same "right to life" conservatives who are anti-abortion promote violence against doctors who are legally performing the procedure."

I didn't take that out of context. Don't hyperventilate. If there truly are "many," name a few dozen.
Surely you can?

Or should I list the many liberals that are blithering idiots?

Substance over symbolism, Kafkaesq. My "many" has names in it.

kafkaesq said...

Warren-

You're right, "liberal" was misappropriated by the Rush Limbaugh crowd and sucessfully turned into a dirty word. I've done my best to do the same to "conservative." It's worked to a small degree in my family and among friends.

Not one of the programs I cited would have even been proposed without a liberal mind involved. You can slander them all you want, but I'm willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that a majority of Americans view these acts/programs to be a sucess. The poll numbers on SS are there.

Most people like liberal ideas, so long as the word "liberal" isn't attached. Conservatives like you try to redefine the meaning of the word in order to avoid giving one iota of credit where credit is due.

kafkaesq said...

Mr. B-

Hyperventilate? Hmmm, now I'm starting to see why you guys go on and on about the "angry left"...you're making it all up in your mind!

The context of my comment, for the last time, was in reference to beaker's judgment that there are lots of antisemetic liberals.

Names you want? Well, there have been dozens of cases of murder and attempted murder, hundreds of bombings and attempted bombings, thousands of threats. These are probably "many" different people. There was a website that served as hit list of doctors for antiabortionists to kill. Specifics- a doctor was shot in FL in 1993 outside his clinic. The other protesters were reportedly happy about the incident. Police reports are public documents, so go find the names yourself.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm


Go to Free Republic and find some Terri Schiavo threads. You get plenty of threats against the jugdes involved in that case. In fact, the site administrator had to post a warning at the heading of each thread telling these sickos to stop it or they'll be deleted.

Senator Cornyn (R-TX) made some pretty callous remarks recently, basically saying we shouldnt be surprised if there's violence against these judges. Tom DeLay has been equally bad.

beakerkin said...

Kafka

Read the Simon Jones post on the Recidivist. Lets see you tell me I imagined that.

Kafka unlike you I was there at the RNC.Five days of a collective temper tantrum. Do you want to ask Jason ? I tell you what seriously wear a Yarmulke to a peace protest.
I know what I saw.

Warren said...

kafkaesq said...

You're right, "liberal" was misappropriated by the Rush Limbaugh crowd and sucessfully turned into a dirty word. I've done my best to do the same to "conservative." It's worked to a small degree in my family and among friends.
Were you born in 1984 or what?

The label "Liberal", was appropiated by the looney left at the 1974 Democrat Convention, if not before.
I imagine its a great comfort to have a straw man to hang your problems on but, your hero's slept with the dogs. Now live with the fleas or get rid of them.

I imagine it gives you great pride that you have successfully demagogued your family and friends "to a small degree". Maybe you should redouble your effort, (try not to foam at the mouth, it puts people off).

Not one of the programs I cited would have even been proposed without a liberal mind involved. You can slander them all you want, but I'm willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that a majority of Americans view these acts/programs to be a sucess. The poll numbers on SS are there.

You try to have it both ways, you use Liberal and liberal interchangeably and then throw a hissy fit when the same tactic is used against you.

Personally I think running the government by opinion poll is pure stupidity. I don't give a damn if, John Q Uninformed, thinks SS is pie in the sky by and by. Reality has a way of biting you in the ass and SS is headed for a meltdown.

Most people like liberal ideas, so long as the word "liberal" isn't attached. Conservatives like you try to redefine the meaning of the word in order to avoid giving one iota of credit where credit is due.

If you want the credit accept the failures as your own also.

Conservatives like me are the ones that keep this country going. We serve in the military, work more than one job, give freely to charity, do real social work gratis, (you know, face to face, actual substantial social work, not the kind that involves feel good BS. We know how to run things). Where Liberals, like you, only run them in the ground.

If you want to get catty, I can play the demagogue game too!

kafkaesq said...

Well, Warren is pointless to talk to any longer. Any substantive comment I calmly discuss elicits "foaming at the mouth" comments.

I suppose it makes you feel better when you pretend the other side is angry and irrational. Whatever.

If you aren't willing to debate substantively, I'll spend my time elsewhere.

I can't talk to people who reduce every discussion to liberals are bad, conservatives are good. Enjoy your bliss, ignorant one.

(now here's the part where Warren triumphantly congratulates himself for "winning" the debate or some such nonsense..sigh.)

Warren said...

Yea, everybody sees me breaking an arm to pat myself on the back.

Now go try and pigeon hole some other poor schmuck.

From where I set Liberals are the ones with the re-definition fetish, everything from marriage to taxes, so don't try and hand me that.

The point I made is that you admit to poisoning the well then use Limbaugh as an excuse. You seem to think people don't have minds of their own and can't imagine that they have examined the facts and come to their own conclusions.

I made it clear in my last sentence that I was demagoging and I won't lose any sleep if I never hear from you again.