Friday, January 05, 2007

The Farmer and The Beak on Love

We will continue with five questions for Farmer John. The Farmer is a philosopher by nature and it is said that love is best understood by poets and philosophers. I would also add the essence of Christianity is a life affirming love that is alien to members of the religion of submission or the acolytes of class genocide. I am an accountant by nature and love is one of those items not found on a speadsheet. Lets see I am giving 70% my significant other is giving her 80% but the IRS deducts 35% and the state takes another 25%. One does not hear of love songs and accountants.

While the subject of accountants and love is humorous Communists and love is like everything else about them evil. It takes a warped set of values to orphan your own kids for an idiotic cause like the Rosenbergs, Ducky's favorite Joooos. The essence of Communism is alienation and on the subject of love and humanity communists are clueless. They talk a great game in self righteous tones but Killing Fields, Gulags, Deliberate Starvationsand class genocide speak louder than absurd slogans. Communism is essentially theft and genocide with idiotic PR and the majority of its adherents are mental defectives like John Brown.

Regular readers are encouraged to answer these questions as well. The answers of genuine religious people like TMW, Rob Bayn and AOW will be appreciated.


1 Descibe the different types of love?
2 Is patriotism a type of love?
3 There is also a familial type of love that is well known to parents. Is this the ultimate example of a mature type of love.
4 Many societies do not have the same notion of romantic love. Marriages are created with an almost barter like system. Is romantic love as we understand it in our current culture a product of Western civ.
5 Do totalitarian governments have an anti love obsession. The mullahs of Iran spend a great amount of time ensuring young people have little or no contact. There was also the great Saudi Fire debacle where girls were sent back into a burning building until they got dressed properly or their parents recued them. Are totalitarians clueless about love and humanity.
6 Is a religion whose theme is submission compatable with love?

95 comments:

The Merry Widow said...

Good questions, Beaker! And accountants and love do mix, how many married accountants do you know? A worse one is engineers and love! I know, I was married to one, and he could be quite romantic. Sometimes love isn't shown with flowery words and roses and chocolate. Instead it's getting up and going to a job because you love your spouse and children enough to sacrifice your own wants and desires for the good of the beloved! It's getting out and checking the gas and oil and tires of a vehicle your spouse is going to use at night because you are concerned. It's planting and caring for rose bushes everywhere you go so your wife will have roses more often! It is laying down your own life for someone elses good!
It is Ephesians 5:21, submitting to one another for the good of another!
It is an act of the will, it is not emotions it's a choice! It is voluntary, not forced. It keeps no accounts of wrong, but freely forgives. It is patient, kind, pure, noble, giving, it is all that is shining and good, it does not fail. But that is unconditional love, the no strings attatched, the no sacrifice too big, no task to small love!
There is submission and submission. Forced submission is degradation, slavery, and degenerate. Voluntary submission is a choice and can ennoble, inrich and bless.
I will take the voluntary kind, it is healthy!
Good morning, G*D bless and Maranatha!

tmw

nanc said...

ohhhhhhhhh, this is going to be schweeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

nanc said...

did you ever think of asking tmw the same questions from a christian perspective? i'm not studied up on the eros, agape and the rest - i only know when my heart meets my mind and it is nearly unexplainable.

Elmer's Brother said...

Beak,

Accounting and love songs...How about

"One is the loneliest number that you ever knew..."

The Bible uses different words for love

agape - the unconditional love that G-d has for us and that we are encouraged to have for one another

philos - brotherly love, where we get the name Philadelphia

eros, sometimes pornea - erotic..pornographic

beakerkin said...

Elmer

You may have come up with an accounting love song. This is bookeeping simplicity in verse.

TMW

Accountants may be romantic in their private lives, but the art of accounting just isn't romantic.

The Merry Widow said...

EB-storge, the comfortable, "old shoe" type, elderly couples display this kind! The deep knowing and understanding.

tmw

Farmer John said...

Okay... here goes nothing.

1) Descibe the different types of love?

Beak. Ouch! Six questions about a subject a philosophers spends almost his entire life trying to understand.

A single question about love might take volumes to answer...well. But I'll attempt, to the best of my ability and the help of some wonderful philosophers and poets, to offer a concise, but rather Nietzschean (in form) answer to your first question, and if I have time, might try to tackle the others. For to talk about love, I need talk a little about that which is loved. The good. The beautiful. The virtuous. And of course... The Absolute from whence they came.

Moody Blues (with two alterations)

Love is a feeling, a beautiful reeling,
The smell of grass just makes you pass into a dream.
You're here today, no future fears,
This day will last a thousand years.
If you want it to.

You look around you, things they astound you,
So breathe in deep, you're not asleep open your mind.
You're here today, no future fears,
This day will last a thousand years,
If you want it to.

Do you understand that all over this land there's a feeling?
In minds far and near, things are becoming clear with a meaning.

Now that you're knowing, pleasure starts flowing,
It's true life flies, faster than eyes could ever see.
You're here today, no future fears,
This day will last, a thousand years
If you want it to.

Farmer John said...

1a) Shakespeare, Sonnett VIII-X.

VIII. - Music to hear, why hear'st thou music sadly?
Sweets with sweets war not, joy delights in joy.
Why lovest thou that which thou receivest not gladly,
Or else receivest with pleasure thine annoy?
If the true concord of well-tuned sounds,
By unions married, do offend thine ear,
They do but sweetly chide thee, who confounds
In singleness the parts that thou shouldst bear.
Mark how one string, sweet husband to another,
Strikes each in each by mutual ordering,
Resembling sire and child and happy mother
Who all in one, one pleasing note do sing:
Whose speechless song, being many, seeming one,
Sings this to thee: 'thou single wilt prove none.'

IX. - Is it for fear to wet a widow's eye
That thou consumest thyself in single life?
Ah! if thou issueless shalt hap to die.
The world will wail thee, like a makeless wife;
The world will be thy widow and still weep
That thou no form of thee hast left behind,
When every private widow well may keep
By children's eyes her husband's shape in mind.
Look, what an unthrift in the world doth spend
Shifts but his place, for still the world enjoys it;
But beauty's waste hath in the world an end,
And kept unused, the user so destroys it.
No love toward others in that bosom sits
That on himself such murderous shame commits.

X. - For shame! deny that thou bear'st love to any,
Who for thyself art so unprovident.
Grant, if thou wilt, thou art beloved of many,
But that thou none lovest is most evident;
For thou art so possess'd with murderous hate
That 'gainst thyself thou stick'st not to conspire.
Seeking that beauteous roof to ruinate
Which to repair should be thy chief desire.
O, change thy thought, that I may change my mind!
Shall hate be fairer lodged than gentle love?
Be, as thy presence is, gracious and kind,
Or to thyself at least kind-hearted prove:
Make thee another self, for love of me,
That beauty still may live in thine or thee.

Farmer John said...

1b) Plato, "Symposium"

Then now, said Socrates, let us recapitulate the argument. First, is not love of something, and of something too which is wanting to a man?

Yes, he (Agathon) replied.

Remember further what you said in your speech, or if you do not remember I will remind you: you said that the love of the beautiful set in order the empire of the gods, for that of deformed things there is no love--did you not say something of that kind?

Yes, said Agathon.

Yes, my friend, and the remark was a just one. And if this is true, Love is the love of beauty and not of deformity?

He assented.

And the admission has been already made that Love is of something which a man wants and has not?

True, he said.

Then Love wants and has not beauty?

Certainly, he replied.

And would you call that beautiful which wants and does not possess beauty?

Certainly not.

Then would you still say that love is beautiful?

Agathon replied: I fear that I did not understand what I was saying.

You made a very good speech, Agathon, replied Socrates; but there is yet one small question which I would fain ask:--Is not the good also the beautiful?

Yes.

Then in wanting the beautiful, love wants also the good?

I cannot refute you, Socrates, said Agathon:--Let us assume that what you say is true.

Say rather, beloved Agathon, that you cannot refute the truth; for Socrates is easily refuted.

Farmer John said...

1c) Emerson, "On the Conduct of Life"; Beauty

The question of Beauty takes us out of surfaces, to thinking of the foundations of things. Goethe said, "The beautiful is a manifestation ofonsmustfurnish secret laws of Nature, which, but for this appearance, had been forever concealed from us." And the working of this deep instinct makes all the excitement -- much of it superficial and absurd enough -- about works of art, which leads armies of vain travellers every year to Italy, Greece, and Egypt. Every man values every acquisition he makes in the science of beauty, above his possessions. The most useful man in the most useful world, so long as only commodity was served, would remain unsatisfied. But, as fast as he sees beauty, life acquires a very high value.

I am warned by the ill fate of many philosophers not to attempt a definition of Beauty. I will rather enumerate a few of its qualities. We ascribe beauty to that which is simple; which has no superfluous parts; which exactly answers its end; which stands related to all things; which is the mean of many extremes. It is the most enduring quality, and the most ascending quality. We say, love is blind, and the figure of Cupid is drawn with a bandage round his eyes. Blind: -- yes, because he does not see what he does not like; but the sharpest-sighted hunter in the universe is Love, for finding what he seeks, and only that; and the mythologists tell us, that Vulcan was painted lame, and Cupid blind, to call attention to the fact, that one was all limbs, and the other, all eyes. In the true mythology, Love is an immortal child, and Beauty leads him as a guide: nor can we express a deeper sense than when we say, Beauty is the pilot of the young soul.

Farmer John said...

1d) Jowett Summary of Plato, "Philebus"

There are three criteria of goodness--beauty, symmetry, truth. These are clearly more akin to reason than to pleasure, and will enable us to fix the places of both of them in the scale of good. First in the scale is measure; the second place is assigned to symmetry; the third, to reason and wisdom; the fourth, to knowledge and true opinion; the fifth, to pure pleasures; and here the Muse says 'Enough.'

---

1e) Jowett Summary of Plato, "Philebus"

Like the supreme nature in the "Timaeus", like the ideal beauty in the "Symposium" or the "Phaedrus", or like the ideal good in the "Republic", this is the absolute and unapproachable being. But this being is manifested in symmetry and beauty everywhere, in the order of nature and of mind, in the relations of men to one another.

Next follow the unmixed pleasures; which, unlike the philosophers of whom I was speaking, I believe to be real. These unmixed pleasures are: (1) The pleasures derived from beauty of form, colour, sound, smell, which are absolutely pure; and in general those which are unalloyed with pain: (2) The pleasures derived from the acquisition of knowledge, which in themselves are pure, but may be attended by an accidental pain oforgetting; this, however, arises from a subsequent act of reflection, of which we need take no account. At the same time, we admit that the latter pleasures are the property of a very few. To these pure and unmixed pleasures we ascribe measure, whereas all others belong to the class of the infinite, and are liable to every species of excess. And here several questions arise for consideration:--What is the meaning of pure and impure, of moderate and immoderate? We may answer the question by an illustration: Purity of white paint consists in the clearness or quality of the white, and this is distinct from the quantity or amount of white paint; a little pure white is fairer than a great deal which is impure. But there is another question:--Pleasure is affirmed by ingenious philosophers to be a generation; they say that there are two natures--one self-existent, the other dependent; the one noble and majestic, the other failing in both these qualities. 'I do not understand.' There are lovers and there are loves. 'Yes, I know, but what is the application?' The argument is in play, and desires to intimate that there are relatives and there are absolutes, and that the relative is for the sake of the absolute; and generation is for the sake of essence.

Under relatives I class all things done with a view to generation; and essence is of the class of good. But if essence is of the class of good, generation must be of some other class; and our friends, who affirm that pleasure is a generation, would laugh at the notion that pleasure is a good; and at that other notion, that pleasure is produced by generation, which is only the alternative of destruction. Who would prefer such an alternation to the equable life of pure thought? Here is one absurdity, and not the only one, to which the friends of pleasure are reduced. For is there not also an absurdity in affirming that good is of the soul only; or in declaring that the best of men, if he be in pain, is bad?


---

1f) Plato, "Philebus"

SOCRATES: My meaning is certainly not obvious, and I will endeavour to be plainer. I do not mean by beauty of form such beauty as that of animals or pictures, which the many would suppose to be my meaning; but, says the argument, understand me to mean straight lines and circles, and the plane or solid figures which are formed out of them by turning-lathes and rulers and measurers of angles; for these I affirm to be not only relatively beautiful, like other things, but they are eternally and absolutely beautiful, and they have peculiar pleasures, quite unlike the pleasures of scratching. And there are colours which are of the same character, and have similar pleasures; now do you understand my meaning?

PROTARCHUS: I am trying to understand, Socrates, and I hope that you will try to make your meaning clearer.

SOCRATES: When sounds are smooth and clear, and have a single pure tone, then I mean to say that they are not relatively but absolutely beautiful, and have natural pleasures associated with them.

SOCRATES: And now the power of the good has retired into the region of the beautiful; for measure and symmetry are beauty and virtue all the world over.

PROTARCHUS: True.

SOCRATES: Also we said that truth was to form an element in the mixture.

PROTARCHUS: Certainly.

SOCRATES: Then, if we are not able to hunt the good with one idea only, with three we may catch our prey; Beauty, Symmetry, Truth are the three, and these taken together we may regard as the single cause of the mixture, and the mixture as being good by reason of the infusion of them.


---

1g) Plato, "Laches" (On virtue)

SOCRATES: But then, my dear friend, if a man knew all good and evil, and how they are, and have been, and will be produced, would he not be perfect, and wanting in no virtue, whether justice, or temperance, or holiness? He would possess them all, and he would know which were dangers and which were not, and guard against them whether they were supernatural or natural; and he would provide the good, as he would know how to deal both with gods or men.

NICIAS: I think, Socrates, that there is a great deal of truth in what you say.

SOCRATES: But then, Nicias, courage, according to this new definition of yours, instead of being a part of virtue only, will be all virtue?

Farmer John said...

...and so as not to clutter this board to much... a longer discussion of love that brings it all together, Socrates speech from Plato's Symposium, has been excerpted and posted (temporarily) at my place.

Farmer John said...

...and to summarize from my perspective... love is the means of accounting for the Good. It's a single set of books in a double entry system that for most people, largely ignores (voluntarily or involuntarily) the good in that which causes pain.

Farmer John said...

and the "good" in hate, fear, and the other creatures of Nietzsche's abyss.

beakerkin said...

Farmer

I find this amazing that this subject is harder to discuss than theology.

I would love to see Freedomnow or Mr Beamish tackle these questions.

Mr. Ducky said...

One the question of art and beauty, Farmer. Duchamp settled that with his ready mades. Before you can discuss art you have to remove questions of aesthetics.

Similar problem with defining love.

Farmer John said...

btw - Xenophon (Oeconomicus) was a MUCH MUCH better accountant than either Adam Smith or Karl Marx. For his books included an accounting of "spirit" missing in the materialism of todays H&R Block accountant.

Farmer John said...

Me too!

nanc said...

not really, beak - true theology is born of love - think of the greatest commandment. philosophy appears to be an aspect of theology, though not fully. but this is a very tough subject. describing the sensory of love is not exactly like describing a smell or a sound.

hmmmmmmmmm...

Farmer John said...

Are you saying that Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder, ducky? I think that's true... until one defines the Absolute Beauty. Plato did.

beakerkin said...

Ahhh

But what does the acolyte of class genocide planned starvation and treason know about love or humanity. His creed is dedicated to the eradication of all those qualities that make us human. Social Justice is a code word for theft via Marx.

There is no humanity amongst the barbaric revolutionary bigoted couch potatoes of Marx.

Farmer John said...

...as noted above, the relative (aka universe) exists for the sake of the Absolute (aka G_d).

nanc said...

if we all loved, there would be no ugliness. that much is simple. we would have NO need for social programs. there would be three and four generations living peacefully under one roof - and those would be only too happy to take care of a less fortunate neighbor.

nanc said...

farmer? a question:

is it easier to figure out what love ISN'T rather than what it IS?

Farmer John said...

Philosophy is the bridge and mediator between science and theology philo-sophy/love-wisdom.

Farmer John said...

...just as generation exists for Essence.

Farmer John said...

...btw, ducky. Never lose sight of right opinion in establishing your aesthetic. Modern's, in their love for science and a wallowing in their calculated "relative" Einsteinian Universe, have. Einstein did not. He knew his definition was built entirely in the "languages" of absolutes.

beakerkin said...

Nanc

Do remember that there are those like the duck for whom love is a four letter word. Marxist are not human in any definition of the word and their actions speak louder than rhetoric.

Farmer John said...

nanc,

I think that's part of the problem. There is generation from opposites. Love is only one set of books in a double entry system. Love cannot be humanly "known" unless we also know its' opposites. For it is the hate which repulses us, and the love which attracts us. We could not know profit, unless we also knew loss.

Mr. Ducky said...

Beak, beak let's visit the cinema.

One of the important recent DVD issues is Bertolucci's "The Conformist". Looks at the rise of Fascism through a filter of repressed love. The theme isn't new it's just that the film is better than others.

On the flip we have Beatty's "Reds" or Schlondorff's "Coup de Grace" which puts far left politics into an overly romantic frame.

"Coup de Grace" is especially good at demonstrating the serious problems that occurr when this matter and anti-matter collide.

Farmer John said...

ps - and I'm not saying one need take a Manichean approach to theology, for in the realm of absolutes lies the divine "circle". The "Trinity" is a symbolic approximation... three intertwined rings. To speak in terms of absolutes, I would recommend Plato's "Parmenides".... the logical dialectical proof of the conclusion that If One is not, then nothing is".

nanc said...

beak? why would you imply that married love is a barter-type system? i've not had to trade anything to my spouse in my marriage. i give him everything i've got whether he wants it or not and likewise from him.

are you perhaps speaking about withholding something or another in order to get back at the other?

'splain yourself.

The Merry Widow said...

Love is a feeble little word to carry so great a burden!
Sometimes love is expressed by what it isn't, feelings come and go, but real love abides. All I can give is examples of what love my late and I shared. He showed love by acts and gifts of service. He did for me and I learned to tell him, "I love you." by acts and gifts of service! He used to say that physical love SHOULD be the culmination of and expression of the; spiritual bond, the emotional tie, and the choice(act of the will to choose love), the physical was merelly the tying together of emotions, spirit, will and body. Too often physical is the only expression involved, therefore it is temporary, and in the end never satisfies!

tmw

nanc said...

p.s. - i don't think western civilization invented any sort of love - it was love that created western civilization!

Farmer John said...

The Absolute G_d is indescribable... a kinda inaccurate trinity of sound...

Mark how one string, sweet husband to another,
Strikes each in each by mutual ordering,
Resembling sire and child and happy mother
Who all in one, one pleasing note do sing:
Whose speechless song, being many, seeming one,
Sings this to thee: 'thou single wilt prove none.'

Farmer John said...

...and so a theologians attempt to describe G_d, their trinities become trinities (enneads) ad infinitum... the roots of polytheism. Moslems don't even attempt to describe Him... for them even a "trinitarian" description is polytheism. The neo-platonists ended up w/six of them

Farmer John said...

I guess I kinda drifted off-topic from love to theology. Sorry beak.

American Crusader said...

"...and to summarize from my perspective... love is the means of accounting for the Good. It's a single set of books in a double entry system that for most people, largely ignores (voluntarily or involuntarily) the good in that which causes pain."

Leave it to fj to find a way to combine accounting and love. Very impressive.
Now if you can find a way to include the IRS........

American Crusader said...

beak..I see that you brought up the topic that led to your post at my site.
That societies differ on the notion of romantic love.
Although I agree that different cultures might view love/marriage differently, I believe that when he gets down to the individuals there isn't much difference. Especially when dealing with young people.
History is replete with stories of young lovers defying the cultural and parental expectations for romantic love. I don't believe it is a product of Western civilization.

beakerkin said...

Nanc

In non Western Civ there is indeed a barter type of negotiation for marriage. As your marriage is one created in Western Civ of course there was no livestock or money exchanged in your marriage.

Ducky life isn't film and we could go into Pasternak for an attempt at love to thrive in spite of Marx. Flowery rhetoric should not be confused with class genocide and Gulags. Marx and love are not compatable.

Farmer John said...

nanc... and I think the root of that creation lies in the relation between Hypermnestra & her husband. They were the "founders of Europe" to the Greeks. IMHO, this is the "reform" that is lacking in Islam. Aeschylus, "The Suppliant Maidens". Women given REAL choices, not abortion choices.

Farmer John said...

beak,

Aeschylus' "Suppliant Maidens" described HOW that barter system for women in marriage got transformed... Hypermnestra chooses to ignore her father, because she has found a man who will respect her sexuality, and not simply "take" what he feels is his due.

Mr. Ducky said...

Beak, marriage has not been static in Western culture. In medieval times it was primarily a means to control the transmission of propoerty. Stayed that way for quite a while (Forsythe Saga and all that).

Early on it was often illegal for commoners to marry.

nanc said...

as with G-d, farmer - for every blessing there is conversely a curse. i suppose this is where we should be well-versed in what our adversaries intend us?

Farmer John said...

The ethics of Homer's Iliad/Odyssey transformed in the sixth century bc from women being objects... "Helen of Troy" to be fought over and told by there families what to do... to a democratic Athens (and the tragedies described HOW the ethics got modified). Aeschylus, Sophocles, and Euripides describe the transformative civilizational processes... voluntary marriages... courts of justice... democratic institutions. Of the transformation from worshipping pagan deities to a Platonic monotheism.

beakerkin said...

Duck

Over the last hundred or so years arranged marriages in Western Civ are rare. They would tend to involve a matchmaker in a back water.

However, being that Marxists think they are god no doubt the evil far left will be trying to claim first nights rights for commies ala marriage of Figaro.

nanc said...

plucky? is everything about an obscure movie only a handful of people have seen or much less cared about? i will give you this - you are in a class by yourself. everything is a study done by a bunch of elitist snobs for you.

shrek - now there's a movie about LOVE!

nanc said...

farmer?

will love eventually evolve into what it SHOULD be?

Farmer John said...

AC...it's the "institutionalization" of the woman's right to refuse a marriage that is relatively unique... and ducky's right, too... the strength of these institutional changes have ebbed and flowed w/tribalism & feudalism... but were strengthened by secular courts...

Farmer John said...

nanc.

No. Utopia.

Well have to wait till we get to heaven. If, that is...

Farmer John said...

...although I recommend you & nancpop make your little piece of this world as "close" to love as it "should be" as you possibly can.

Go tell it (as it should be) on the mountain.

The Merry Widow said...

Nanc-Because of the Fall in the Garden, love and everything else is devolving and degenerating. Only where G*D's Grace is welcome will there be love as the Creator intended!

tmw

nanc said...

AHA! tmw and farmer - you caught my trick question!

dayam, you two are good!

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Love'll make you share french fries.

nanc said...

but what about fried okra, beamish?

beakerkin said...

Mr Beamish

Will you give the woman you love the last beer? This is easy for me to say as I do not drink. Northwind
would probably kill me to get the last Budwieser.

nanc said...

o.t. - who got the 40,000? if i'm figuring it correctly - it's farmer.

nanc said...

p.s. - i have somewhat challenged fern to do an interview on the subject matter. let's see if he's up to it.

Mr. Ducky said...

If it's a Bud Light, sure.

If she wants my last Samuel Smith Pale Museum Ale then get lost.

Farmer John said...

M-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m. Could be.

Farmer John said...

mr. ducky's right. There's "love", and then there's crazy...

I'm way past the crazy stage.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Nanc,

Fried okra is what you cook when you want to tell a man born in Alabama from parents born of the South that you love him dearly. And if that's the case, you were thoughtful enough to cook some for yourself, and wouldn't dare expect him to share his. There are some things that just are that way. I suppose Yankee women feel the same way about diamonds.

Beak,

I'm not much of a drinker either, although I play one on the internet.

Love made me switch brands of cigarettes though.

Elmer's Brother said...

AC - love and the IRS?

What's love got to do with it? - Tina Turner

Elmer's Brother said...

I understand the Biblical submission to be mutual between a man and a wife.

Farmer John said...

...Virginia Slims, eh beamish? Why don't you just smoke your Winston's with a long, effeminate cigarette holder...

I'll admit to having a soft-spot for an occassional Swisher-Sweet, myself... without the plastic "tip", though

Farmer John said...

beak,

Sorry, but my mind is fried now. You'll have to tag questions 2-6 to someone else, or save them for another time.

Have a great weekend, folks!

Mr. Ducky said...

Right Elmo and wearing the burqa is a mutual act for protection of the woman.

Have The Promise Keeprs gone out of business? What a bunco that was.

Elmer's Brother said...

still working on your divinity degree I see Mr. Feather...you wouldn't know bunco from a crap game

try again lame *ss

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

FJ,

No no, I used to smoke Kamel Red Lights (in the nifty orange pack) but my love smokes Camel Lights, so now we smoke from the same carton.

I still occasionally smoke my beloved Kamel Red Lights though, when I want to spend the extra 50 cents for a pack.

And now for the 64 hunnert doller question:

What brand does Nanc smoke?

Elmer's Brother said...

the New Testament say a man is to love his wife more than himself and be willing to lay down his life as Christ did

how much more loving can that be Cardinal Duhkkky?

Elmer's Brother said...

save it for the sermon on the mount there Duhkkky...even then you don't know jack

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Heh.

I remember staying in a hotel while a Promise Keepers convention was in town.

Hadn't smelled marijuana that... um... tasty... since high school.

nanc said...

misty menthol light 120's. about a half pack everyday, when i feel like it.

an occasional cherry swisher in the evening with nancpop.

Mr. Ducky said...

Wow, just checked out their website. Nothing but an announcement that a new one is in preperation and all merchandise is 60% off.

Did they get into trouble with the IRS?

Elmer's Brother said...

I think Duhkky was trolling the PK looking for Ted Haggard.

Elmer's Brother said...

Oh snap my bad what would duhkky know about loving a woman.

Elmer's Brother said...

I was 40,001 this morning by the way. dangit

Elmer's Brother said...

I realize this will be wasted on Duhkkky but oh well

v 21
Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.


the Greek word for submit in Eph. means to "yield" followed by the admonition for men to love their wives as Christ loved the Church.

This was a radical concept at the time. Jewish law at the time permitted husbands to divorce their wives very easily and the Greeks traded partners more often than Duhkkky. Paul essentially tells husbands to treat their wives as equals.


Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."[c] 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

It must be lonely for you Duhkkky.

Elmer's Brother said...

duhkky I think you should pick up the unleashed lapel pin you'd just ignore the WWJD bracelet and besides it wouldn't go well with your t-shirt

The Merry Widow said...

EB-OUCH! Plucky doesn't know how to love in the Scriptural sense. And Plucky, check my site, I went through ALL 3 CHAPTERS of the Sermon on the Mount. I don't think I blew it in talking about it either!

tmw

Always On Watch Two said...

I see that I missed out completely on this discussion. I spent the day doing up letters of recommendation for my seniors. Tedious work, at best.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Nanc,

Misty Menthol Light 120s? Those are those little skinny cigs you can tear the filter off of, twist up the ends and sell to Catholic school kids as a doob, isn't it?

Don't laugh, it's how I made my first million.

nanc said...

yeah, beamish - the first one of the day usually gets me high too!

nanc said...

this is too funny - the farmer has only answered the first question! isn't he the best?!?!?

he'd make a good cop.

kuhnkat said...

ElBro,

thank you.

Ducklenutz,

try replacing Woman with Ecology and you might get a closer understanding of what ElBro is explaining on about the teachings!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Freedomnow said...

Since I have been drafted I will answer Beaks's questions.

1. Describe the different types of love?

Since every person is a unique individual, love has a different meaning to each of us. With every person you love it is a different experience. There are over 6.5 billion types of love.

2. Is patriotism a type of love?

I suppose it is. My greatest love is for humanity and I dont believe too much in patriotism. However, I respect the traditions of my society and honor them in accordance to their worth. And the US is worth a hell of a lot more than Communist Cuba or authoritarian Russia.

3. There is also a familial type of love that is well known to parents. Is this the ultimate example of a mature type of love.

I'm not a parent and wouldnt know. Perhaps I've never known the ultimate love, sigh... But then again I've never had to change a diaper or put up with a 20+ year old freeloading hellspawn ;-)

4. Many societies do not have the same notion of romantic love. Marriages are created with an almost barter like system. Is romantic love as we understand it in our current culture a product of Western civ.

Love is a survival instinct that humans have expanded upon far beyond its purpose. Perhaps it will evolve until we have developed the global orgasm of peace , or maybe not... If anyone wants to barter their wife for beer please email me some pictures.

5. Do totalitarian governments have an anti love obsession?

Most totalitarian governments try to foster an Orwellian love for itself or its religion so they just have another approach to love. In these cases the state is obsessed with controlling its citizens and is the ultimate jealous lover.

6. Is a religion whose theme is submission compatible with love?

In practice Fundamental Islam teaches men to hate women and women to fear themselves. It would be a great religion for homosexuals if the Koran didn’t advocate execution as punishment for such behavior. Those who are moderate and don’t interpret the Koran literally can truly love while maintaining their piety to such a twisted religion.

Once again, like totalitarian governments, Islamist fundamentalism seeks to make love of the religion the highest form of love, even above the family.

There are a few moderate Muslims out there. The American Islamic Forum for Democracy is a fantastic example. I’m sure they have satisfying sex lives.

Freedomnow said...

Farmer John is off his meds as usual.

I would demand nothing less!!!!!

nanc said...

are you going to post fern's findings? just curious - he did answer ALL the questions...

beakerkin said...

I did post Freedomnows findings

Freedomnow said...

Now dont fight over me kids...

But if you do have to fight over me, could you use swords? Fencing deuls are really cool!!!!!!!!

For those about to die, we salute you.

nanc said...

i see that - i meant as a segment! perhaps no one will see them here - that's what i meant.

Warren said...

Random thoughts about love:

To paraphrase, I don't know what it is but I know it when I feel it.

Marriage and love aren't necessarily synomyous.

Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends (John 15:13).

Whoever is without love does not know God, for God is love. (1 John 4:8)
As regard to totalitarian states, socialism, Communism, Islamic Theocracies et al; they seek to replace God and love by either claiming they speak for God, portray their tyrants as gods or replace God with a state from which all good things come as well as punishment for blasphemy against the state.

Narcissism, the love not mentioned, the destructive love of self.

nanc said...

love and marriage SHOULD be synonymous, warren. i don't think a good marriage could survive without it. and i'm not necessarily speaking of that first-year, feel good, romantic-type love. it's the kind of love that has no language - just a look and you just know that you know.

why, i cannot even imagine staying with someone just out of spite~! fun as it may be...

Elmer's Brother said...

beak

love and accounting?

"Love me two times baby...love me twice tomorrow...

Elmer's Brother said...

competitive accounting and music

musical chairs