Friday, January 19, 2007

Civil law and You and Building a Healthy Economy

We have had this discussion before but I have always advocated Civil law with respect of property rights as the foundation of sane governance. I have no desire to live under a theocracy, nor do I want people in black robes anywhere near my religion. God and religion by nature can not be politically correct and an anything goes religion would be more of a circus act than a religon. A religion will always have a set of beleivers who are part of a divine wisdom and outsiders.

Some of you on the left laughed when I stated that I want to keep judges away from religion. In New Jersey part of the concern was that the Civil Union law would require clergymen to perform gay marriages. Marriage is a religious term and most religions have eloborate rules and regulations. One day Jams who was an immigration inspector in the UK will have to explain how they hadle polygamy in the UK. In the United States it creates major problems. Someday, I might bore all of you with a discussion of family law.

One of the deep seeded problems with the Muslim world is Sharia. Imposing theocracy on non-believers is 100% wrong. Sharia does have provisions that treat women and non-Muslims as second class citizens. There is no way to justify Jim Crow treatment in the law of anyone.


Certain religions and cultures react differently to authority. A religion whose basis is subnission is exploited with ease by strongmen. A Moroccan friend laughed about the following broom joke and said there are elements of truth. An authority figure tosses a broom at a Moroccanand tells him sweep the street. He will sweep the street until he is told to stop. Toss that same broom at an American and he will probably toss it back at you. A Jewish person like myself would probably ask why?

One of the racist notions is that Muslims are incapable of developing a modern economy. One needs to look no futher than you local Pakistani immigrant to see this is dead wrong. However Pakistanis and other Muslims are more likely to leave and find sucsessthan to find it at home. One of the problems is Shariastarts off with its prohibition against interest and that hinders capital formation. Political instability, violence and corruption scare foreign investors. Why place my factory in Pakistan when I can place it in Belize or Costa Rica? Sharia also confines the productivity of women and religious minorities to a certain extent.

The limits on religion should be exhortation to criminal acts. I have zero problem with person X preaching as an unbeleiver that Jews are hellbound. I have a severe problem when this goes to Kill the Jews or Gays as this is incitement to a criminal act. Freedom of speech never protected treason, sedition or any type of criminal conduct. This is a part many of those on the left forget, notably poultry.

The keys to building a modern economy and a free nation are simple. The reality is that in many ways Natural resources deter the growth of healthy societies. Comwad Chavez will fail but his oil revenues will prolong that failure.

These are the keys to building a healthy economy.

1 Civil law
2 Political Stability
3 Respect for property rights
4 Investing in human capital
5 Keep official corruption low
6 Encourage Capital Formation

Do note that a healthy economy and a free society are not the same thing. China is a
politically stable cleptocracy that respects property rights. Chavez has scared investors and may have set back the economies of Latin America decades.

Do note that one of the problems in France is number 6. Excessive taxation and work rules combined with exorbitant social programs have hurt French economic growth. One of the reasons for the Muslim riots is the high unemployment rates. People who work do not tend to riot. France can not be described as an economic failure like Haiti but it growth has been low for a long time.

Beamish in 08.


Mr. Ducky said...

Please note that marriage is a civil institution. You do not require a church to be married.

The meaning and purpose of marriage has changed dramatically through time and will continue to change.

Right now married women are pretty close to being a minority so I would suggest that those who are concerned about the state of marriage quit worrying about the big bad homos and look a little closer to home.

Evangelicals might want to look at their high divorce rate.

beakerkin said...

Sorry Duck

Every religion has extensive rules and regulations and it is a religious term. I want Marxist freaks like yourself and ACLU types far away from my religious terms.

Get your Marxism away from my house of worship.

Mr. Ducky said...

Then why do you get a marriage license from the state and not a church?

Always On Watch Two said...

Right now married women are pretty close to being a minority...

Maybe I misheard, but I thought I heard on the news the other night that single women/single mothers are now a majority, but a slight edge.

Do note that a healthy economy and a free society are not the same thing.

Yes, and China is a good example. But at what cost to the individual?

beakerkin said...

The state does issue licenses and most divorces. It also confers tax benefits to married people. As a matter of practicality as well as record keeping this is why it is done. The US and most other countries do keep extensive records.

beakerkin said...


China is a repressive police state that violates human rights. However, they clearly do understand
how to run an economy.

Having a sound economy usually implies some degree of personal freedom. China is the notable exception to this concept.

Mr. Ducky said...

The two fastest growing economies in the world?

China and Vietnam. Draw your own conclusions.

Myself I'd say that emerging economies must follow a mercantile model and dispense with the "free trade" homilies.

In the matter of the state interfering with religion, Beak. When has that occurred. The mormons outlawed polygamy as a matter of doctrine. Should we have waited until that time to stop recognizing polygamous marriages?

American Crusader said...

China is not nearly as restrictive as it once was or it could not implement any of the current capitalistic features which are the strengths of its economy.
The resurgent Chinese stock market is a perfect example.
You don't think a theocracy could develop a strong economy?

beakerkin said...

AC I am not certain theocracy itself is the problem. Sharia has unique problems that restrict the productivity of women and minorities and Capital formation.
I do not think it is a wise idea but a Christian or Judeo form would not be a ruinous on an economic level.


Ah yes let us single out those white conservative Polygamists. Every nation has a right to set standards and age limits.

In Israel a woman married a Dolphin but say that human poultry unions were an abomination, sorry Ducky.

Lets go over statistics growth is calculated on previous production.
So Vietnam's growth is more a result of years of Commie mismanagement than an acheivement.
China grew by ditching Marx and respecting foreign investment and property rights.

Study statistics Duck and try again.

American Crusader said...

The God-given Right of Property Owners

"The purpose of government is to protect the life, liberty and property of all individuals, by punishing evildoers and encouraging the righteous." (America's Providential History p.20) On p. 128-129 the book discusses the "Biblical" principles of the Constitution proposed by Samuel Adams, "Father of the American Revolution." The third prinicple is the "right to property," which is one of the "rights of Colonists as Christians."

"Scripture defines God as the source of private property...Ecclesiastes 5:19 states, 'For every man to whom God has given riches and wealth, He has also empowered him to eat from them'...Also in I Chronicles 29:12, 'Both riches and honor come from Thee." (pps 187-188)

Anonymous said...

Government and Religion should always be kept separate, I don't want Politicans/Judges deciding what I can do in my Church, and I don't want the Church deciding public policy, I know that is not a popular opinion among some Christians and other people of faith, but history proves, Government and Religion together is a recipe for disaster.

beakerkin said...


The above is true. I also know the concept of private property is also in the Talmud. Sharia presents unique obstacles and the recognition of private property especially amongs that of minorities is less than secure.

Theocracy is not style

Mr. Ducky said...

Beak, there are many reasons to criticize sharia but you obviously don't know your ass from your elbow when you talk about private property under sharia. Where did you study sharia, Jihad Watch?

You are quite ignorant.

Let me ask you. A gay coupled gets married in a secualr ceramony. How does that impact the church?

Seems to me that most of the impact to churches in recognizing is coming from within the churches themselves. Witness the Episcopalian schism.

Now those schisms are going to occur. They have occurred in all major religions and the only way to stop them is theocracy, which you claim to oppose.

Try again and let me know when your talk radio masters have a better argument for all this.

Farmer John said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
beakerkin said...


You have some unusual trolls on your site

Possum said...

In the Bible, marriage is never instituted. It just suddenly shows up, mentioned in passing.

Marriage is one thing in this country that Church and State have mixed on. That is now part of the problem.

Perhaps the state should always have recognized a civil union, which religion may bless as marriage.

But you still would have many people object to a homosexual civil union as forming the basis of a family unit to raise children in.

I wouldn't put it past the left to try to force churches to marry homosexuals. They have tried to force Catholic hospitals to perform abortions. That's an easy call - that's just wrong.

Farmer John said...

...and they might be migrating, so best batten down your hatches.

I kicked a veritable hornets nest.

beakerkin said...

Possum The Talmud has extensive rules on who can marry. The Bible has them but I would rather not think of leverate marriages.

I am sure TMW will know the section

jams o donnell said...

I haven't been an Immigration Officer for over 15 years the rules don't seem to have changed since. If a man has more than one wife only one is permitted to settle in the UK. The other(s) would have to stay abroad. This does not apply to people visiting the UK.

beakerkin said...


Bat Yeor was ethnically cleansed from Egypt. You 100% justified the practice on the basis of alleged Israeli terrorism. Well if you were logical( not likely) you would similarly endore expulsion of Pseudostinians on the same business. Lets face it you are too hypocritical and not manly enough to make a good Kahanist, like MZ.

Weisel is a widely hailed author and educator and Nobel prize winner
who has a world wide respect and reputation. His sole detractors are Noam Chomsky( noted fraudulent scholar and Communist traitor), Norman Finkelstein ( Noted Holocaust minimizer, anti- semite and thrice fired for incompetence and mental instability ) and a much younger and less wiser Hitchens whose current thoughts are unknown. You are in the company of Communist freaks, Nazis, KKK types and racial power goons where you belong.

MZ is your superior in every description.

FJ I have the usual suspects.

beakerkin said...


It is the same in the USA. However,
the children of the other marriages may come in via legitimation. When they become citizens in five years the may sponsor the mother.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

By Ducky math, 12 people died in Iraq yesterday, 3 today, so violence has decreased in Iraq by 75 percent in the last 24 hours.

Yeah, stats aren't his bag.

nanc said...

marriage was made for a law-abiding society:

very interesting all the civility.

Mr. Ducky said...

There you go Beak, you managed to state your opinion.

Now forget about fellating Weisel and tell me what he has accomplished.

beakerkin said...


Lets see he won the Nobel Peace prize. Has Comsky been nominated?

He has won numerous awards for his writting and scholarship.

You seem to be unable to construct a sentence without gay inuendo are you a poultrysexual?

beakerkin said...


Lets see he won the Nobel Peace prize. Has Comsky been nominated?

He has won numerous awards for his writting and scholarship.

You seem to be unable to construct a sentence without gay inuendo are you a poultrysexual?

Mr. Ducky said...

Yasser Arafat won the Peace Prize. Was he a great man? I don't think so but I'm surprised you believe that Arafat qualified for greatness because of the award.

I remember trying to get a film about the Holodomor on PBS in honor of the 50th anniversary but that was blocked by none other than Elie Weasel.

We know that you deny the '32 but I'm still surprised you support such an active denier as Elie Weasel.

beakerkin said...


AOW and others have been over this absurd accusation. Why would a anti-Communist like myself deny a Commie attrocity that my family lived through.

This is just insanity on your part.

Now Ducky is busting on his hero the Egyptian Commie Arafat. Will you get your talking points correct.

Lets see politicians are held to lower standards than scholars and authors. The world considers Weisel a great scholar and a man of compassion.

Chomsky and Finky do not even warrant consideration.

kuhnkat said...

DuckeNazi is licking his own butt again. He says it tastes and feels good and he doesn't need anyone else to help with his new video equipment!! Occasionally he gets a nose treat when he farts while doing it. It also gives him a big LEG UP when interFACING with his HANDLERS!! Of course, this strains his back and neck and makes him cranky.

He obviously has been doing it a LOT in the last few years.

Well Duckenazi, you show your ignorance again. The gubmint got involved in marriage to enhance stability, growth, tax income, and cannon fodder. What shows how STUPID the LEFTARDS are is that they want to confer this institution on those who CAN NOT provide the growth without TURKEY Basters or others doing it for them!!

This is another population destroying feature that will leave the elite eating their own!!!

Hitting close to home POULTRY!?!?! Think there's a little wild turkey baster in your past?????


Anywho, as everything else, the Gubmint should NOT be in the marriage business for tax or any other reason. There is plenty of Contract Law to cover every other kind of HOOKING UP two or more THINGS want to do!!!!

Again, if you look at the legalities of the Civil Marriage it is all about MONEY and POSESSIONS and who has the POWER to dispose and make decisions. This includes authority over the children.

Why we would want to give the class of people most likely to be sexually active with children legal authority over them you will have to explain to us DuckeNazi!!

When the Gubmint gets involved it f's it up for everyone!!!

Of course, if we make it legal, they won't want to get married anymore!!!!!


You should be extremely glad you are anonymous on these boards DuckeNazi. People would drive from all over the country to LAUGH AT YOU!!!


Oh, and DuckeNazi, I posted a list of people even more ignorant than you, Like the Peanut Brained Peanut Farmer, who have caused more death than Castro, who received a Peace Prize. When you own the committee you can have them give the prize to whatever whack jobs you want just to point out the lap dog STUPIDITY of POULTRY!!!!

Here is the current list of everything from real humanitarians to LEFTARD MURDERERS!!! Yeah, I really want one a them!!! We can start with Henry Kissinger and his contribution to the slaughter in South Vietnam and the deaths of the Boat People!!!!

Go back to licking your own butt!!

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Please note that marriage is a civil institution. You do not require a church to be married.

You do however require one male and one female.

Always On Watch Two said...

When the Gubmint gets involved it f's it up for everyone!!!

Eloquently said.