Thursday, January 04, 2007

A special Interview with Farmer John on Economics

Economics is a subject that infuriates me more than any other subject. The ignorance of the commie/liberal main stream media is obvious. Why we expect to be informed by journalism majors who seem to read little beyond Marx, Menchu and Chomsky is one of America's mysteries. The bird brained Duck seems to have failed this subject as well as basic statitics.

1 Can you explain what a cyclical comodity is? Many economic morons wrongly project straight line price increases into perpetuity. Can you explain in laymans terms why this is wrong.

2 I am greatly appalled by regressive/socialist nanny state taxation. Gasoline taxes adversely impact rural working poor who often drive sixty miles to work. Do gasoline taxes adversely affect rural poor disproportionately?

3 Is socialism theft?

4 Do farm subsidies actually hurt consumers? I am having a hard time seeing Ted Turner as a beneficiary. Why on earth should the production of mohair be subsidized?

5 Did the unions kill their host in the automotive industry?


Brooke said...

I can't wait to see Farmer's answers!

Farmer John said...

1 Can you explain what a cyclical comodity is? Many economic morons wrongly project straight line price increases into perpetuity. Can you explain in laymans terms why this is wrong.

I have no idea what a cyclical commodity actually is, I doubt there really are any. Yes, even though corn only gets harvested once a year in the northern hemisphere, and once again in the southern, there are stockpiles world wide which are typically used to "smooth out" the commodity cycle- kinda like Egypt in the seven years feast, seven years famine days of Joseph. At the end of the seven years feast, corn prices were in the dumper (excess demand & high storage costs) and by the end of the seven year famine, corn prices were sky-high as people began anticipating a Year 8 crop failure and all the storage silos were empty & looking to re-supply or rent-dirt-cheap. It took a Pharonic dream-interpretter prophet like Joseph to successfully predict the weather affecting the Egyptian corn commodity cycle.

And just as supply can be unpredictable, so likewise can demand. When the peasants were demanding bread just before the French Revolution, there was an unusually high supply of cake... even the queen could see that. Now "why" the peasants never took Marie's advice and switched from bread to cake, I'll never know. In other words, the future is unpredictable. Otherwise, communism and state-planned economies would work.

2 I am greatly appalled by regressive/socialist nanny state taxation. Gasoline taxes adversely impact rural working poor who often drive sixty miles to work. Do gasoline taxes adversely affect rural poor disproportionately?

Yes, especially since the equipment used to work an agricultural rural economy is largely powered by gasoline as well, and many of the residents of the agricultural belt are land-poor and energy dependent. After all, the kids all moved off the farm to go work in the big city, and only ma and pa are left there to run the tractors, plows and and harvesters. The horses have all been put out to pasture, and the John Deere's a real gas hog.

3) Is socialism theft?

I wouldn't call it theft. Legal Piracy is more like it. The Dem politician lawyers all shoot at the Rep corporate lawyers through their legal and contract loopholes, then shake hands, turn their guns on their own crews, make them empty their pockets, and walk the plank. Whenever one ship's coofers gets too full, the other ship re-engages and the battle gets renewed. So either tread water or climb aboard again, matey.

4) Do farm subsidies actually hurt consumers? I am having a hard time seeing Ted Turner as a beneficiary. Why on earth should the production of mohair be subsidized?

Sure they "hurt" consumers, as the consumers end up paying more than they could under a completely global laissez-faire system. But we don't have a laissez-faire system. And there's more to life than $2 Happy Meals and $9 Movie Tickets. So I say we close our borders economically, then drop all economic and corporate subsidies. Let the market go where she will internally, and let the rest of the world's economy get back to the level they deserve.

Mohair? When are we gonna get rid of the national strategic helium reserve?

5) Did the unions kill their host in the automotive industry?

They helped, but they're not entirely dead yet. They're still on government subsidy life-support. Talk to me again when the final Corporate Auto CEO stock bonus disappears...

beakerkin said...

A cyclical comodity are those comodities that rise and fall with the economy. Oil, Lumber and steel are all cyclical comodities. Like all comodities their prices fluctuate with market conditions.

The most annoying part of discussing cyclical comodities are with people like the Duck who assume linear price progression. However, as the Duck is a Communist
his understnding of all matters pertaining to markets is warped.

Farmer John said...

Thanks for the clarification, beak. How predictable are economic or market-cycles?

Farmer John said...

Lunar cycles are predictable. Solar cycles are predictable. So how come today's weather is so damn unpredictable?

I'd better go check my weather rock.

Dry. Hmmmmmm. It must not be raining.

Farmer John said... must be that damn economic cycle & associated global warming that's throwing the whole damned weather-prediction business into turmoil.

Shut down the factories, folks, I just want to take a few measurements...

beakerkin said...

I want to thank the farmer for pointing out that agricultural equipment uses alot of fuel. I think that most of the equipment is diesel and as such costs more than regular fuel.

Oil taxes are hidden taxation that we do not think of much like the numbers added into our phone and cable bills. I will let others add in about hidden taxations.

Mr. Ducky said...

Farmer, when crop prices are low due to oversupply the tenedency of a farmer is to produce more. How do you intend to avoid that problem?

Do subsidies inflate prices or do they stabilize prices?

I don't know and the current system is certainly more of a corporate wlfare project tahn anything giving farm relief.

... but an opinion would be interesting since it's a complicated issue and would serve the double purpose of showing Beak that his talk show talking points are simplistic.

Farmer John said...

I switch from corn to soybeans, ducky. I also add a couple of silos, if I can afford it, and sell when the price rises again (if'n I guessed wrong on which crop to plant). Besides, I can always feed the corn to a coupla more hogs, chickens, etc.... depending on which animal market looks more promising...

Farmer John said... have got "flexibility" out the wazoo... unlike a recently modernized and tooled GM Plant in Flint.

beakerkin said...

The Communist Duck arrives with his cartoon economic class genocide advocacy song and dance.

Agricultural subsidies were meant to help the small farmer who does not exsist in this age. Like most social programs commies like the Duck added categories that were never needed such as Mohair. There should be a means test for all agricultural subsidies that would exclude Sam Donaldson and Ted Commie Turner from feeding at the public trough.

Helping the family farm is a noble cause. This help should not extend to huge agricorporations that should stand on their own. Farm subsidies are welfare run amok.

Farmer John said...

....and if you want me to produce less, just let me re-zone and sell my land to the damn suburbanites crawling all over the county. They'll snap it up in ten minutes and start building single family residences... or condos.

Farmer John said...

Many farm subsidies these days serve to re-distribute the supply; ie. dairy cattle from Wisconsin where it is not needed, to Florida, where it is. I could see continuing to do this if I though fresh milk was in short supply somewhere, but it isn't. And most farm subsidies pay farmers not to grow anything. I only like it because it gives farmers the opportunity to let their fields lie fallow so that next year the yields will be twice as high...

Farmer John said...

Meanwhile the Wisconsin dairy farmers simply turn their excess milk supplies into government cheese. I guess that beats building a grain storage silo.

kuhnkat said...

FJ stated:

"When the peasants were demanding bread just before the French Revolution, there was an unusually high supply of cake... even the queen could see that. Now "why" the peasants never took Marie's advice and switched from bread to cake, I'll never know."

Maybe cause they couldn't afford cake either or it wasn't in their local 7-11???


Always On Watch Two said...

Beak said, Helping the family farm is a noble cause.

How many of those family farms are actually running and producing? Most of those who have family farms are hurt by the subsidies--or so they say. Also, farming is a risky proposition. I seem to recall hearing a saying about it (distant memory): "If not the locusts, the drought. If not the droughts, the flood."

Many small farmers show a profit on paper, but not in the wallet.

kuhnkat said...

Ducklenutz the Great Economist ranted:

"Farmer, when crop prices are low due to oversupply the tenedency of a farmer is to produce more. How do you intend to avoid that problem?"

After the subsidies have been removed this problem will solve itself in less than one generation!!


For those as knowledgeable as Ducklenutz, farmers plant more of the same commodity knowing the Gubmint will pay them to NOT plant more of what they don't need!!

In general, farmers and others who actually WORK for a living are not stupid enough to waste money doing things that are sure to LOSE THEM THEIR INVESTMENT, like buying seed and planting it in a glut!!

Of course, if the Gubmint is willing to pay them to NOT grow an item it behooves them to plan to grow that item to get paid to do NOTHING, or, to change their PLANS and get paid NOT to grow something while they grow something else that may make them money!!!


kuhnkat said...


You should make a documentary about this!!


kuhnkat said...

Here is a page that gives information on how the Gubmint tries to smooth out the Cyclicals:



And if you include some of the people screaming for and supporting subsidies I will vote for a medal for you!!

beakerkin said...


Farm subsidies are an example of why we need to keep Marxist like Ducky away from government. The program was intended to help out small farmers producing products we need. I have no prodlem buying small farmer Bob's soybeans and sending them to Africa or a housing project. What are we suposed to do with Mohair? Use it as a bribe to placate Eurotrash commies to be less anti-american.

The small farmer needs help, but please no more mohair. I think the fashionistas can buy enough mohair without going into my pocket. For crying out loud there should also be a means test.

Farmer John said...

Sam Donaldson is getting mohair subsidies. Why don't you?

beakerkin said...

Farmer John

What is the taxpayer supposed to do with surplus Mohair? We can feed the hungry with soybeans and corn but mohair is a bit too much.

Farmer John said...

Put it in a warehouse, and wait for a fashion revolution? Once Castro dies, I'm sure we can crank up production of Mohair zoot-suits.

What is it you have against goat-herders like Sam Donaldson, anyway?

Always On Watch Two said...

What is the taxpayer supposed to do with surplus Mohair?

Subsidize mohair sweaters for Dolly Parton?

Sorry. Couldn't help myself from saying that. Must be the neuro medication. ;)

Carry on with the serious discussion now.

beakerkin said...

Farmer John

At least we can feed the poor with excess crops. What on earth do we do with mohair? What is next subsidies for Vermont silk?

Let our agricultural excess feed the hungry. I will not pay for mohair sweaters for yuppies.

Farmer John said...

If they didn't subsidize the mohair, beak, feta cheese would cost $0.01 more per pound and the Arabs would riot.

beakerkin said...

Farmer John

I am sure Ducky will be spreading this new angle to his caligraphy students.

Farmer John said...

Besides, how many jobs for Arab goat-herders are there in the good ole USA, anyways?

Mohair subsidies are a DNC sponsored jobs program...

Farmer John said...

Now my family has historically profitted from pork-bellies. They're as American as hot-dogs and ribs.

Farmer John said...


I think if beak had wanted a serious discussion of economics, he would have had the duck tackle this topic. He's the one with all the money, not me.

beakerkin said...

Farmer John

The intent of the farm subsidies was to help the little farmer and to give some of the product to the poor either in the USA or abroad.

Pork products are certainly appreciated in many communities.
The bottom line is not only to support the small farmer but to aid those in genuine need.

Mohair, silk and tobacco are not items that should ever qualify for subsidies. Let those tobacco farmers grow another product.

Even cotton grown in the USA could be shipped to help small start up businesses in countries like Haiti set up small manufacturing concerns. The idea is to use these products for some reasonable purpose.Mohair is a luxury item and should not be subsidized.

nanc said...

now i see what happens when i must go to work!

what bothers me about subsidies is the paying of dairy farmers to THROW their milk out!

we have some friends whose family had a dairy farm and they were paid handily to milk their cows and throw the milk away at a much lower price.

some of these farmers would put the milk into 50 gallon sealable drums and sell it as "sour milk" to hog farmers on the side - which is just this side of criminal.

many of these farmers have now turned to beef cows as it is a much more lucrative business - the government would NEVER order a farmer to kill his cattle in order to subsidize them.

subsidies = welfare and will develop some high class cheats.

i always enjoy a farmer interview. i'll be back later to expound.

AOW! polly darton's sweater? bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahaha!

Farmer John said...

I think of mohair subsidies as something more than price supports for the garment industry.... I see them as "goat" subsidies. You support the goat or sheep by-product, you support the goat. Chicago becames the second largest city in America by coming up with creative uses for animal by-products so that not a single part got wasted... Bones, hides, hair, hooves, tongues, organs, etc.

If it makes people feel better, let them think of pork subsidies as medical research subsidies - pig-heart valves... etc.

Who knows, maybe one day Cindy Sheehan will need a heart or face transplant. I know just the goat that could serve as an organ donor, and even know a few medical researchers who might be willing to give a goat-face transplant a try.

So support mohair subsidies, beak. In the long run, it could shave pennies off the cost of Cindy's new look... and she'd pay it back to us with every new sweater she wore.

beakerkin said...

Farmer John

These questions get worse as the next Farmer John/Beakerkin topic will be love.

You can handle the philosophical side and I will handle the accounting angle. I think that interview will set off even the mild mannered amongst us. DO NOT MIX ACCOUNTING AND LOVE IT IS BLASPHEMY will be the response from our peers.

Farmer John said...

Besides, if you laid the whole subsidy off on the goat, how could we undermine the French in the mohair fashion wars?

Farmer John said...

You think they don't subsidize their goat herders?

Farmer John said...

If the muse gives the topic the nod, I'll be there, beak! Always a pleasure.

USpace said...

absurd thought -
God of the Universe thinks
communism is SUPER

even though it never works
because we are not robots

absurd thought -
God of the Universe feels
communism is fair

fools can't or won't think it through
idiots just keep scheming

Farmer John said...

one last comment...

If you got rid of all the agricultural subsidies, farmers would have to put millions of acres of fallow croplands into ethanol production and convert their tractors over to running on pig fat.

You can never have too much agriculture, but I'll admit, you probably don't need the extra 3.5 million bales of mohair unlress you can convince the French to use it for something.

Mr. Ducky said...

Whoa Beak, you've apparently had a planetery visitation.

Uspace should be renamed USpaced.

Do you solicit these yahoos?

Mr. Ducky said...

absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
thumpers are here for more than my entertainment....

beakerkin said...


You are too literal US Space makes perfect sense it is sarcasm.

nanc said...

i saw uspace as someone else at autonomist recently...uspace speaks in code - time to call in the codetalkers!

Anonymous said...

One distinct reason for visiting beak's blog is to see him and Ducky get into it. These are two we all need to have show up at the blogger's convention, June 1st in Crystal City VA. I am posting this here becuase I am sure Ducky never knew about it, I hope they really do both show up.

Anonymous said...

and of course one "cyclical commodity" I'd like to see become static is the price of gasoline.

Elmer's Brother said...

My wife's sister and her husband run a fruit farm that has been in their family for 150 years. They have problems with fruit being imported from other countries.

Duhkky you have to know the G-d of the universe before you can know what he says.

kuhnkat said...


Farm Subsidies = Command Economy = Socialism

Ducklenutz isn't turning you is he????

I won't be reactionary and say that the Gubmint should NEVER get involved in private enterprise. It should just wait for the second coming!!


beakerkin said...


The reality is that the United States is in the business of food didstribution. The government needs to purchase food for the underprivaledged in the USA and for limited famine relief overseas.

I have never seen anything wrong with buying comdities we can use in aid programs from smaller domestic farms. Feeding the domestic poor is part of our responsability as a nation. However, learned deendency is a genuine problem. There are plenty of people in the North country who quietly suplement their meager diet with wild game and some are hungry.

kuhnkat said...


if you don't see anything wrong with the gubmint buying commodities to GIVE to the poor and underprivileged then why are you against Communism??


By the way, please read the Constitution and Bill of Rights and explain to us where the FEDERAL Government gets its' RIGHT to take our money and buy anything to give to anyone else?? You can also take a stab at explaining where they get the RIGHT to do most of what they are doing in the Regulatory market!!!

If you don't want to take the time I will tell you. They get their RIGHT from Activist Judges who reinterpreted the Constitution in SPITE OF the writings of the authors and elected officials who voted for them!!! Specifically one paragraph has been taken out of oontext and inflated to usurp all the authority possible.

The actual powers of the Federal Government are laid out in detail in Section 8. It is a quite LIMITED list. How the Activist Judges have gotten around this is to reinterpret the first paragraph of the Constitution where GENERAL language is used to give an overview, specifically, the GENERAL WELFARE blurp. This has been stretched to overide the SPECIFIC DETAILS OF ALLOWED FEDERAL POWER!!!

The socalled Justices have used the GENERAL WELFARE statement to mean that the Feds can do ANYTHING THEY WANT TO PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE!! Now, think about that. Who's interpretation of what constitutes an improvement or advancement of the GENERAL WELFARE is going to be used?? THE SO CALLED SUPREMES!!!! They gave themselves the power to decide just what the Federal Government can and can not do in spite of the detailed LIMITED list in the Constitution!!!!!


None for little, big, small, or just right farms either!!

No oil subsidies!!

No MOHAIR subsidies even if it IS to grow enough to make Dolly a sweater!!! (see, I'm SERIOUS about this!!)


kuhnkat said...

Beakerkin pleaded:

:There are plenty of people in the North country who quietly suplement their meager diet with wild game and some are hungry. :

If the Feds got their noses OUT of the economy those people could probably provide for themselves very nicely.

How many businesses have the minimum wage and health insurance laws destroyed??

How many farms have the ecological regulations stopped??

How many businesses have been closed by overburdening PAPERWORK requirements???

Hasn't the recent INCREASE in tax revenues over the DECREASE in tax RATES taught you ANYTHING???


Unless you can find a genius with lots of smart regulators and plenty jack booted thugs to snoop and run around and cover every possibility. OOOOPS!!! The overhead from all that bureaucracry just ate all the profit from that genius running the economy!!!

And this is when there are no CRIMINALS breaking laws and diverting funds and extorting people!!!! Add in the crooks and you should be able to start seeing how it CAN'T work!!!!


Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Visitor # 39,988 reporting for duty.

Feeding the domestic poor is part of our responsability as a nation.

Let me see if I can put this nicely...


There are plenty of free bugs crawling around. Most are edible.

beakerkin said...


Feeding the poor is not communism and in an economy with winners and losers it sometimes happens. The families that suplement their table with wild game have jobs. The jobs aren't great but they do what they can.

We all agree that the government is supposed to pay for defense and major infrastructure. The majority of people on welfare are children.
Liberterian slogans are nice and there are great truths about learned dependency. However, there are those who have fallen down either via uemployment and to be honest those who can't make it.
Feeding hungry children is not communism. You are correct that the best remedy is growth of business, but in reality there are some who need assistance.

Farmer John said...

What Kuhnkat et al fail to take into account is foreign competition, where countries in Europe are HEAVILY subsidizing their farm & manufactured products. Unless you close the borders to trade w/tariffs, etc... subsidies will play a big part in a countries economic life. It's either that, or let all our farms & manufacturers go out of business.

Farmer John said...

Subsidies are the ways that governments "cheat" in the friendly economic wars we call world trade.

Mr. Ducky said...

I'm still trying to remember if I ever took a "statitics" (sic) class.

kuhnkat said...


subsidising your own businieese causes them to become inefficient and ultimately FAIL!!

If they do not fail it is because of the subsidies which suck the life from other areas of the economy.

Sorry, just because the US has made the least errors does NOT mean that we are doing things RIGHT and will ultimately succeed!

You can see this happening continuously. A gubmint will be in trouble and decrease taxes and/or subsidies and, for a time will stick with it and see their economy GROW!!!

Ultimately the LEFTARDS will step back in as they see their CONTROL being lost and clamp down on the economy, or extract too much for THEIR purposes and the economy will be back in the Outhouse!!

Tactically there are times when there is NEED for gubmint to step in and play arbiter (Train Barons, AT&T, IBM, other examples). Many modern examples have been made WORSE by our ludicrous Corporate Law Structure that puts Companies as the legal equivalent of Person in court!!!

The thing we all forget is that no matter how reasonable the current Prez and Lawmakers and regulators seem to be, giving them extra power means that the loonies will have that power when they get elected at some time in the future!!

Sorry, I didn't realise that Beak and FJ were really allies of Ducklenutz. I'll keep that in mind in the future.

Hitler really fixed the German economy!! Mussolini had the trains running on time. How many more examples do you need that putting too much power into the hands of a small group is STUPID?!?!?!?!?!?!


I've noticed a few comments how the Chinese have opened things up. Well, they are allowing more creativity in business. Let's see you wander around China and report on the continuing oppression of people there?? It is still a Gulag even if some of the inmates are allowed to profit from their hard work!!!! They still torture and execute political dissidents. They still torture and kill Christians, Moslems, Catholics... They still censor news and information... They still illegally spy on and subvert other governments and businesses. They still finance and sell weapons to terrorists...... They are still totalitarians who allow no recourse against the POWER STRUCTURE!!!


kuhnkat said...


feeding the poor is a PERSONAL responsibility just like MOST of the things our Feds are doing and shouldn't be.

Look at the amount of money the US INDIVIDUALS give every year in ADDITION to the money extorted from them!!!

The best example of how the money extorted through taxes alledgedly for the General Welfare is the UN!!!! The US gubmint is only a little less accountable, wasteful, and poorly run.
while I complain about a lot of the PRIVATE charitable organisations, they are gems of organisational efficiency and purity compared to our Federal MONEY PITS!!!

You want to do some research?? Look into how much of the money budgeted to Federal Programs actually go to the intended Recipient or Project!! The Farm Subsidy Program, being under heavy discussion here, would be an excellent place to start!!

And don't tell me it is fixable!! It has done nothing but get WORSE since long before I was born. The wonderful gubmint plans to feed the poor and pull the country out of the Great Depression KEPT THE US IN DEPRESSION!!!!!

Show me a country where any of this BS WORKS OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME!!!!!

There AIN'T NONE!!!!!!!!

What is happening to the US right now??? The middle class is disappearing!! A few are moving up. This is typical of a SOCIALIST SOCIETY!!!

There is a GREAT ANECDOTE about Daniel Boone campaigning for reelection. In one town he went to talk to one of the respected farmers. The man told him he would not vote for him because he was not following his oath. He had voted with others in congress to give money to people who had been burnt out in a horrendous fire.

This FARMER understood that we have a Constitution that will allow us to live together. He also understood that once Congress or the Judiciary or the Presidency started IGNORING it to HELP people the Constitution and the Freedoms guaranteed by it would soon be meaningless and the Gubmint would become another Elitist clique like all oppressive regimes.

Remember the story about the Camel's Nose in the tent?? Humanitarian concerns have been used forever by the Utopian MORONS like Little Che Suck the Greenie Fascist to talk otherwise reasonable people into giving up their FREEDOM!!!

I have the FREEDOM to starve or get rich. I will not easily give that up for SOCIALISM and Big Brother having his nose in every tiny bit of MY LIFE!!!!!

Farmer, Beakerkin,


Farmer John said...


Sometimes what's right, and what's true, AREN'T the same things.

beakerkin said...


Do you want to tell me the working poor do not exist. Would you like me to believe the woman who tossed the possum I sent to Allah into the back of her truck is a gourmet.

Poverty exists even in VT and people go hungry quietly. If they are lucky the game warden looks the other way especially if it is done discreetly.

Most of those people eating small game do not recieve much in the way of foodstamps. However it is easier to shoot some meat than to make your own toilet paper.

What do you want to do with hungry children? The churches can only do so much.

Mr. Ducky said...

"Many modern examples have been made WORSE by our ludicrous Corporate Law Structure that puts Companies as the legal equivalent of Person in court!!!"

Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company yeah, damned activist right wing judges.

kuhnkat said...


how does YOUR or MY PERSONALLY helping out these people have anything to do with aborting our Constitution into a bloated, corrupt, SOCIALISM??

I GOT new for you Bubbah, SOCIALISM and FED PROGRAMS make MORE POOR than they save!!!!

When you take money from free enterprise and the private persons pockets you are taking it from those who will spend it more responsibly creating more commerce and there for more jobs and money for those working POOR!!!

I grew up in Kern County outside of Bakersfield. It is migrant farm worker country. Used to be, now a days it is Undocumented Worker country!! It is also similar in many ways to where you are and the south where there is much poverty.

It is rich farmland because people WORKED TO MAKE IT THAT WAY!!! Now, we have subsidies for gentleman farmers that don't need it!! We STILL have the working poor. Most of the welfare is broken families as always!!

You act like it is a sin to ALLOW people to be HUNGRY!! I have been hungry. Have you?? I would still not vote for one FED program to put food in my mouth back then!! Our family would have been OK except my dad was an alcoholic. My mother was from poor people who had alcoholism and dealt with it by covering up and ignoring it!!

There was plenty of work then and now. The area is still growing and there was no STARVATION THEN OR NOW!!!

Hunger sharpens the senses.

If people are STARVING then we can talk about doing something at the local or, at the worst, STATE levels. Basically, anytime you introduce INCOME REDISTRIBUTION you might as well start hiring the firing squads. Whether the fist has Chain Mail or Velvet covering it it is STILL A FIST!!!

You can try all the tear jerking you want and you still end up just JERKING me. Fed interference CAUSES MORE OF THE POVERTY AND HUNGER THAN THEY STOP!!!

With the BILLIONS spent on welfare, food stamps, housing... YOU ARE STILL COMPLAINING THAT PEOPLE GO HUNGRY!!!


Quit whining and do the research. NON OF THOSE FEDERAL PROGRAMS WORK!!!!!!

When the Republicans forced Clintoon to sign the welfare reduction act (or whatever it was called) a sh!tload of poor people were put to work. Many of them moved passed working poor a lightspeed.

I would like for you to give me a definition of what POOR is.

If you don't have a cell phone??

If you don't have a gaming console??

If you don't have a 50" Plasma TV??

If you don't have a TV??

If you feel hunger pangs 10, 9, 8... times a week??

If you can't afford to pay for the fuel for you heater in Vermont??

If you can't afford appropriate clothing to keep warm?

If you can't pay for the gas in your car??

If you can't afford the insurance for your vehicle??

If you can't afford medical care for you child??

What is POOR???

In Somalia POOR has a completely different meaning than here!! There and many other areas they DREAM about being as rich as our POOR!!!! Look at our ancestors and think about how the definition has changed.

Where do you or anyone else get the RIGHT to take money from someone who is only slightly above the POOR themselves and give it to the so-called POOR!!!!

Where do you get the RIGHT to take money from Donald Trump and give it to ANYONE else for ANY purpose???


The founders were very world wise. I have disagreed with them in many ways in my life. At this time I can not disagree with ANYTHING they put in the Constitution and Billof Rights. They NEVER FORGET THAT PEOPLE AREN'T PERFECT AND GIVING THE GUBMINT TOO MUCH POWER WOULD GUARANTEE A DISASTER IN SHORT ORDER!!!!

The fact that sooo many people have not learned from them is a true national disaster!!

Another exercise for you and FJ:

How much of the Federal Revenue is from Personal Income Taxes?

As I suggested before, look into the budgets of those wonderful programs you are espousing and tell me what percentage of the money isn't WASTED!!!!

The best way to kill the alligators is to drain the swamp. The swamp of the Federal Gubmint is the CASH that is available through corrupting officials to get favorable legislation. That legislation can be for ANY purpose. If it is HUMANITARIAN it is easier for the Official to get passed. It STILL provides the MONEY for graft.

What do we need millions of lines of tax code for except to create opportunities for people to unjustly enrich themselves through the Federal Gubmint??

Why do we have a Federal Reserve System?

Why can't most Gubmint organisations pass the same Audit requirements that ALL civilian organisations have to pass??

If the Feds were held to the same standards as Workd Com and others most of them would be in JAIL!!!

It's TOO DAMN BIG!! It has become unmanageable and unaccountable due to the idea that it should be everything to everybody!!!

Why do you want the Federal Gubmint to be a Secular version of GOD when you KNOW that imperfect people will always corrupt it???

Beakerkin and Farmer, you are not stupid people. Put a tourniquet on your bleeding hearts and brains and check into REALITY!!!


kuhnkat said...

Farmer John,

subsidising farm and business interests simply guarantees that you will have to continue subsidising them forever. You take money from those that have a little and give it to those who are FAILING!!!

When did the idea of rewarding failure get to be such a NECESSARY thing to you??


Most European countries are excellent examples of where welfare, subsidies... will take you. They are having to back off their Social programs to prevent their economies from folding. Their people are upset about losing the soft life and generally try to elect Politicians who promise to get the trough full again. They are locked in the FAILURE mode.

Canada is suffering through the same issues even with the huge amount of energy they export!! They are looking into reforming their Health Care because it is NOT serving the people!!

We have no RIGHT to anything we did not CREATE, EARN, or have GIVEN to us!!!!!

There are a number of Small Businesses here in San Francisco that will fold due to the increase in minimum wage. Beakerkin, Farmer, I expect you and Ducklenutz to start sending me money so I can give it to those businesses to keep open so their employees will not lose their jobs!!


How ridiculous is that?? You get taxed more because the STUPID HUMANITARIAN policies of the FED and some State Gubmints that consistently cause more poverty than they relieve??


OK, I will stop BLOVIATING now!!

kuhnkat said...


here is an article highlighting the poverty issue in the US: