Friday, March 31, 2006

Murder of a Nation by Henry Morgenthau part 1

Americans tend to hold up Turkey as an example of a potential Muslim Democracy. The standard arguments fail to note that Turkey is an ethnically cleansed society that is 99% muslim. The Turks surpress and mistreat a large Kurdish population.

I found my copy by accident at a local book fair it is a short book around 130 pages.
The sad part is that there are those today who try to blame the Armenians for their own genocide.

Morgenthau describes the Turk's treatment of its Christian population in familiar Dhimmi terms. The Christian ( Not Just Armenian, Assyrian and Greek & Jew) are held outside the system due to arrogance. PC types like to praise the millet system but it was one of the aparthied features of life under Muslim rule. No doubt Anum or 167 will point out that Morgenthau was a Joooooo and his observations tainted by Zionist tendebcies.

Morgenthau describes the Turk as the most cowardly of people. The Turk in Morganthau's word are humble when being lorded over by Europe but reverts to form
when the boot is lifted. The Christian minority was mistreated and abused in ways that seem familiar to those that study the history of the Jews in the Pale of settlement. The treatment of the Christians in Turkey was actually worse because
there were no raids of girls for Harems and theft of children for Janissary corps.
On top of the brutal mistreatment of the Christians the Turks expected loyalty from a people they brutalized.

Morgenthau attributes the massacres to the notions of perserving a crumbling empire and pan Turkism. The Ottomans had been tossed out of the balkans. The notion was that
had the area been ethnicallycleansed and populated with Muslims it would still be part of the empire.

There was a brief period of false democracy where the young Turks promised the Christians peace and harmony. After the failed Galipoli campaigns the Turks reverted to form. According to Morgenthau the Turks acted in charachter and began a final solution to the Armenian problem.

Morgenthau's first chapter looks as if it had been torn from Jason Pappas's blog. The excuse of the Duck and others is that Mooooooslims were victims of colonialism and that the later Marxist studies are more accurate. In fact historically Mooooooslims were more apt to be the Colonialist then the Colonized. Even today dolts like 167 fail to grasp the nature of Islamocolonialism while railing about Ameician imperialism which seems to be the proliferation of McDonalds and Coca Cola.

Beamish in 08, Ducky still gets second billing at Disney and Looney toons form NAP
National Association of Poultry and 167 is still irrelevant.

69 comments:

Always On Watch said...

Beak,
I recommended this article to LA Sunsett.

Freedomnow said...

If you were a good Leftist you would whitewash the Turk's history because of their heroic opposition to US liberation of Iraq.

As a matter of fact, if you were a good Leftist you would oppose freedom everywhere.

No War for Freedom!!!

Bush Lied, Fascists Cried!!!

Insert your slogan here _______________

Mr. Ducky said...

What excuse, Beak? You seem to feel that unless someone buys into your hatred 100% that they are kefir.

Let me make my position clear once again. As far as iraq goes, we invaded their country for no reason and the blood of dead Iraqis is a blight on us. OK?

As far as this little scorecard you keep of good and bad ethnicities...nothing is pure. Nobody shits chocolate ice cream and pisses perfume although you clearly believe that we must assign those qualities to jews and American conservatives.

Your ignorance gets us nowhere and only brings more misery to the world. You are appaently intelligent and I don't understand why you can't shake this.

I notice you attracted "freedomnow". Notice the trick that this ass clown uses.... "the left" whitewashes Turkish history. That's the pure stinky cheese Beak and you know it.

The left does understand that all nations have violent histories. This need to portray America as the avenging angel of history is absolute lunacy.

Come on Beak. Reason not dogma.

beakerkin said...

Wrong Ducky

The Turks were true to form and the predations of the Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians were the norm for Muslim history. The brutality of Muslim rule was the norm. This post modern fiction that Muslims were tolerant is pc baloney.

Muslims were more apt to be the colonialist then the colonized. They are on a range of territory that is not theirs . Yet the left talks about fictional Jewish colonialism on land where Jews and not Arabs are indigenous.

Sorry Duck no sale and for the record Henry Morgenthau was no conservative except when compared to Fidel.

Why did you miss the roast ?

Robert Bayn said...

I have a belief, and i know it's not very Liberal, and this is why i think Bush's plan to spread freedom will fail, that you CANNOT ever have freedom and democracy under Islamic law, personal freedoms will always take a backseat to religious Ideolog.

Always On Watch said...

Robert Bayn,
you CANNOT ever have freedom and democracy under Islamic law, personal freedoms will always take a backseat to religious Ideolog

That's how I see the matter.

Anonymous said...

robert,

It's a good thing we're not trying to spread freedom to Iraq then. Just democracy. Think of it as a parting gift, from us, to them. And then don't listen to any Cassandra's about how stupid it was to honor their religion.

-FJ

Mr. Ducky said...

Our gift?

You demolish their country, kill a few hundred thousand, start a civil war, hand them over to Iranian influence and install a couple of stooges to steal the oil money and you call that a gift.

You bring that level of destruction while AOW is pissing her Depends over her paranoid imagined sharia invasion and you expect to be taken seriously.

How stupid it was to honor "their" religion? What about when push comes to shove and you find out there isn't even support in your own country so called "religion". Or whatever you call it. God must be proud of you.

beakerkin said...

Ducky

Are you attempting to deny the historical record of Islamo Jim Crow/Colonialism ?

Always On Watch said...

Duck,
AOW pissing her Depends over her paranoid imagined sharia invasion...

I'm not in Depends yet. Hehehe.

You don't like Mustang's talking about you, but you love to talk about others. Oh, well.

Anonymous said...

mr. ducky,

Hey, it could have been worse. We only occupied them for three years. It could have been ten!

-FJ

Anum Mahktar said...

This is response to the post you left.

Sharia Law will become America's Law. You could even say that this is Anums Truth.

Then where who you go? When the caliphate is restored you will be on your knees as well

nanc said...

you could put a gun to my head and i will NEVER bow to the caliphate or any other false god. it is you who will be bowing and confessing the truth. sharia will NEVER be american law, because most people i know are right and have guns and swine and i'll splatter pig all over the first muslim freak who comes near me - no paradise for them - no, no, no! i'm going to eat a ham sandwich just for insurance. dream on.

beakerkin said...

Anum

Dream on . Muslims will kill each other off long before any Caliphate can be restored. There are too many divisions and Islamic countries and Europe is becoming less relevant. As Muslims fall deeper into theocracy the technology and income gaps will widen.

There will never be Sharia Law in the US. The amount of hispanics emigrating ensures that your power will be diluted.

nanc said...

p.s. level mecca!

nanc said...

you know what muhammed and i have in common beak? neither one of us has EVER been to jerusalem - what say all of us who have never been, claim it for our own and go kick the muzzies OUT once and for all - it's time for a call to take jerusalem.

the biggest lie in islam - muhammed ascending from jerusalem - PSHAW! in the first place he didn't ascend from anywhere - descend is more like it.

the merry widow said...

You tell it like it is nanc! My Daddy's Walther or my husband's Ruger, your choice! I'll drop a little ham on whoever tries!

tmw

Robert Bayn said...

FJ,

Democrarcy with out freedom is not Democrarcy, it is a joke, and under Islamic law it is nothing more than Islamic communism.

American Crusader said...

It's no wonder that the EU doesn't want to include Turkey. If it wasn't for their strategic position, they should have been kept out of NATO. Although a supposedly secular country, you won't find too many churches or synagogues.

Always On Watch said...

Beak,
You've got a point there about the Islamic tribal warfare and the Latino immigration's overwhelming the possibility of shari'a law. Latinos will never give up pork-eating and will fight to keep their delicacies; and they might even catch on about dumping pork renderings all over the mosques. Of course, dog hair is useful as well. Mix the two: dog hair and pork renderings--no need to use nukes!

Always On Watch said...

Nanc,
the biggest lie in islam - muhammed ascending from jerusalem.

I left a link about MTP's vision at my site. Did you find it?

Anonymous said...

Anum,

In your dreams. May G_d rest your soul.

-FJ

LASunsett said...

All anyone needs to do to understand the Turks is find a good book on the Ottoman Empire. And it looks like you have found a good one there, Beak.

They had a brutal imperialistic military (to include a pretty decent navy). They also had a separate and very corrupt legal system, as well as one hell of a corrupt government. They were an imperial fuedalistic society with a Genghis Khan Mongolian style military. Local army units were put in charge of localities, which made the empire highly susceptible to corruption.

I will look for this book, I have to find one that AOW recommended too. So maybe, just maybe, I might get some time this weekend to hit a bookstore. (Chaos is a word that pretty much describes my life these days and I haven't been to a bookstore since Christmas)

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Ducky,

Let me make my position clear once again. As far as iraq goes, we invaded their country for no reason and the blood of dead Iraqis is a blight on us. OK?

What is there to clarify about this position, other than the verifiable fact that it contains not one iota of reality within it?

Sure Ducky. We held economic sanctions and demanded disarmament from a warmongering thug responsible for the deaths of 3 million of his own people at a time when Iraq was firing upon UN authorized flight patrols every day of a 12-year long "cease fire" period for no reason either.

And it's just a coincidence that Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden both wanted the "containment" policy on Iraq maintained by troops based in Saudi Arabia ended.

Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and now Hussein. You leftists sure pick winners for heroes.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Anum,

The Sunni and Shia need to quit killing each other over the chance to lead the grand genocide against the Dar al-Harb before your joke about a global caliphate even tickles like a threat.

Freedomnow said...

Some more slogans,...

End the Occupation in Germany

Saddam Won the Election

Sabatoge the Duck Hunt

Anonymous said...

Just a note for those of you who read my discussion of "truth" over at Jason's site on Wednesday...my argument as to its' "relativity" and basis in Nietzschean "Will to Power". For proof of the validity of that argument, I simply point to Anum and his/her website... it's "title" - Anum's Truths... and as to his truth "writ large" in the religion entitled Islam-Submission as IT relates to power and "feelings" of power... of Freudian "dreams" as "wish fullfillments" and relationship to the "right/visually dominant" brain hemisphere... and the need of these mental "delusions" for the initiation of "action" based upon "will" vice "instinct".

And of course, Plato's argument that to develop a "hierarchy" for rating the moral relativity of different cultures, "truth" alone is an inadequate and insufficient... one rquires more... and of course identifies the "additional" criteria as "beauty" and "measure"... for I believe that there are "ugly truth's"... Anum's being a PRIME example (talk about your lack of symmetry and a preponderance of Thanatos).

-FJ

Anonymous said...

For those of you who are interested and NOT temporally impaired, the argument can be found here under a discussion entitled What's the Reason.

Arriba Rocinante!

-FJ

Anonymous said...

and my apologies to Robert for NOT being willing to discuss this partcular topic in depth and in public. I would simply ask him to not continue to remain so mentally wooden and imagine a certain Greek hippo.


Esta vez por cierto, Rosinante...

-FJ

Always On Watch said...

FJ,
Rocinante again! Hold fast to your dreams, DQ/FJ. Your dreams will keep you sane.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Rosey. Like DQ, I was once in-sane. Now, I'm just a simple peone, como Sancho.

Donde esta la posada? Quiero una cerverza.

-FJ

Always On Watch said...

FJ,
Mi casa es su casa. Hay cerveza--y otras bebidas decliciosas.

Lo digo cuando tenemos una fiesta. :)

Quizas el cuatro de julio?

Tambien, hay fiestas cerca de nosotros en el VFW. Alli hay mucha cerveza, muy barata.

PS: Cerveza, tan temprano por la manana?

MissingLink said...

Ottoman empire introduced the most oppressive form of Islam.
The nationalism used by the Young Turks to build modern Turkey only made it worse for after a short period of time the "nationalists" started to identify Islam with their national pride.

Always On Watch said...

OBL has condemned Turkey, of course. Not Islamic enough for his taste.

Warren said...

FJ,

Having read your, "discussion of "truth", I have a wee nit to pick.

You said:
"Islam is not closed to reason. It's closed to "differing" interpretations and based upon a single "set" of fixed-and-stable reasons. Kinda like the Torah... or the Catholic Church's interpetation of the King James version of the Bible."

The Catholic Church does not believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, King James, NIV or any other.

The statement seems at odds with the proceeding sentence.

Anonymous said...

Warren,

Yes my language was very "loose" and not very well thought out. I was simply trying to point out that like Islam, Christianity has many sects and each accepts a certain collection of "gospels/books" that make up their official Bible (and official canon)... and that this/these "foundational" collection(s) can vary between Copts, Eastern Orthodox, w/some sects even including "new" materials and "latter day saints" (ie Book of Mormon)...depending upon acceptance/rejection of the "divinity" of new "prophets" and/or writings. And once these foundational documents are accepted, each sect's scholars debate/argue and create their own single universal interpretation of "truth" which it then "freezes" (dogma) and applies to its traditions and rituals and beliefs and morals (sins/virtues)...and so the chances of the Catholic Church accepting or arriving at new and "different" opinions regarding accepted dogma is slim to none and change preceeds at a "glacial" pace... it has reasons for its' intepretations which are passed on in ancillary writings, and those are unlikely to change (for new data is NOT coming in and becoming part of the accepted canon, although there is some "cultural interpetational creep" like our reading of new "rights" into the Constitution).

In other words, Catholics have "reasons/rationalizations" for their beliefs, and so do Moslems. Their beliefs are not "devoid" of reasons/ rationalizations.

-FJ

Warren said...

Thank you for your reply.

I would just say; no matter what those reasons and rationalizations are, the net result is all that matters in the end.

Thirteen hundred years of history show that they always revert to the murdering bastards they started as.

I'm not interested in seeing Islam survive except as a footnote in a history book, (see thugees).

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Islam has great potential for being an ultimate war doctrine. One of its most inherent traits is its absolute ferocity against percieved enemies. The drive to kill is so engendered that as a military philosophy it could be potent stuff.

If not for Islam's absurd sanction against eating pork, I might be inclined to admire its elegant amorality and barbarian relativism for the revolutionary tools that they are. Nothing wins a fight like an ass-whoopin'. If the enemy is spitting out his teeth, you haven't knocked the wind out of him yet. Stomp the enemy until hills grow in China.

Instead, I find myself at odds with Islam. Nothing screams "humble me please" like a Muslim with a hang-up about pork. If God really didn't want man to eat pork, He wouldn't have made just about every part of a pig delicious.

When I'm sitting at breakfast eating my slab of ham, two scrambled eggs, three slices of bacon, three sausage patties, four pancakes witrh butter and syrup, grits, hash browns, orange juice, milk, and coffee while reading and chuckling about articles in the paper about starving people in some average leftist hellhole that dares call itself a nation, I don't want to hear about how my eating of pig flesh and entrails condemns me to Hell in the eyes of people who believe camel piss is medicine.

Color me monocultural.

Anonymous said...

Ah, you see there beamish, that's just the "sinner" in you not wanting to give up pork. If you remember your Bible stories, the story of Cain and Able comes to my mind (although in a somewhat perverted sort of way). Do you remember their offerings to the L_rd? One was considered "average" and the other "best". The "average" was "rejected" and the "best" offering accepted by Him. And lets face it...pork fat rules! Especially when wrapped around a stick, and slightly burnt! Now SACRIFICE to your L_rd! Give up the pork!

I mean your father and mother BOTH ate of fruit of knowledge of good and evil. And so now you "know" the difference, don't you? And for having done so, were expelled from the Garden...

Woodstock, "CSN&Y(?)"...

Well I came across a child of God
He was walking along the road
And I asked him tell where are you going
This he told me
Well I am going down to Yasgur's farm
Going to join in a rock and roll band
Goin' to get back to the land to set my soul free
We are stardust, we are golden
We are 2 billion year old carbon
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden
Well then can I walk beside you
I have come to lose the smog
And I feel like I'm a cog in something turning
And maybe it's the time of year
Yes and maybe it's the time of man
And I don't know who I am
But life is for learning
We are stardust, we are golden
We are 2 billion year old carbon
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden
By the time we got to Woodstock
We were half a million strong
And everywhere there was song and celebration
And I dreamed I saw the bombers jet planes
Riding shotgun in the sky
Turning into butterflies
Above our nation.
We are stardust, we are golden
We are 2 billion year old carbon
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden


No offense to peoples of ANY faith, even the of the "purely-secular" ones intended.

-FJ

Anonymous said...

Speaking of gardens... some think I still have quite a bit of weeding to do in my garden (and they're right!)...

Emerson, "Beauty"...

Beauty
The spiral tendency of vegetation infects education also. Our books approach very slowly the things we most wish to know. What a parade we make of our science, and how far off, and at arm's length, it is from its objects! Our botany is all names, not powers: poets and romancers talk of herbs of grace and healing; but what does the botanist know of the virtues of his weeds? The geologist lays bare the strata, and can tell them all on his fingers: but does he know what effect passes into the man who builds his house in them? what effect on the race that inhabits a granite shelf? what on the inhabitants of marl and of alluvium?

We should go to the ornithologist with a new feeling, if he could teach us what the social birds say, when they sit in the autumn council, talking together in the trees. The want of sympathy makes his record a dull dictionary. His result is a dead bird. The bird is not in its ounces and inches, but in its relations to Nature; and the skin or skeleton you show me, is no more a heron, than a heap of ashes or a bottle of gases into which his body has been reduced, is Dante or Washington. The naturalist is led from the road by the whole distance of his fancied advance. The boy had juster views when he gazed at the shells on the beach, or the flowers in the meadow, unable to call them by their names, than the man in the pride of his nomenclature. Astrology interested us, for it tied man to the system. Instead of an isolated beggar, the farthest star felt him, and he felt the star. However rash and however falsified by pretenders and traders in it,onsmustfurnish the hint was true and divine, the soul's avowal of its large relations, and, that climate, century, remote natures, as well as near, are part of its biography. Chemistry takes to pieces, but it does not construct. Alchemy which sought to transmute one element into another, to prolong life, to arm with power, -- that was in the right direction. All our science lacks a human side. The tenant is more than the house. Bugs and stamens and spores, on which we lavish so many years, are not finalities, and man, when his powers unfold in order, will take Nature along with him, and emit light into all her recesses. The human heart concerns us more than the poring into microscopes, and is larger than can be measured by the pompous figures of the astronomer.


-FJ

Anonymous said...

...and in the interest of becoming an "equal opportunity offender", I relate the following tale for beamish (from Wikipedia)...

Prometheus was a son of Iapetus by Clymene (one of the Oceanids). He was a brother of Atlas, Menoetius, and Epimetheus. He surpassed all in cunning and deceit. He held no awe for the gods, and he ridiculed Zeus, though he fought alongside the gods against the other Titans. Prometheus was the creator of man. When he and Epimetheus ("hind-" or "after-thought") set out to make creatures to populate the earth under the orders of Zeus, Epimetheus went with quantity and made many creatures, endowing them with many gifts that were alloted to the brother for that purpose (fur, claws, wings, and fins were some of these gifts). While his brother was making creatures, Prometheus was carefully crafting a creature after the shape of the gods. It was a human. However, Prometheus took so long in crafting his masterpiece that when he was finished, Epimetheus had already used up all the gifts from Zeus. Prometheus was sorry for his creations, and watched as they shivered in the cold winter nights. He decided to steal fire from the gods after Zeus disagreed with his idea of helping the humans. He climbed Olympus and stole fire from the chariot of Helios (or, in later mythology, Apollo). He carried the fire back in the stalk of a fennel plant, which burns slowly and so was appropriate for this task. Thus mankind was warm. To appease Zeus, Prometheus told the humans to burn offerings to the gods. He killed a great bull for this purpose. When the gods smelled the offerings, Prometheus decided to play a trick on the gods. The meat he hid beneath a layer of bone and sinew, whilst the bones he disguised with delicious-looking fat. He then offered Zeus his choice of "meat" for the gods to eat. Zeus picked the plate of bones, and Prometheus took the plate of meat for himself and the mortals. To punish Prometheus for this hubris (and all of mankind in the process), Zeus took fire away from the earth.

Now sacrifice, damn you! We need our fire more than bacon!

-FJ

Anonymous said...

That which does not kill me, makes me stronger! (Nietzsche)

Mary Mary quite contrary
How does your garden grow?
With silver bells and cockle shells
and pretty maids all in a row


Is this the real meaning?
It's certainly one interpretation...

Mary Mary quite contrary
(Mary is a disagreeable Catholic tyrant)

How does your garden grow?
(the garden referred to is filled with the graves of protestant martyrs/opponents of the Queen and the growing number of such victims under her oppressive rule)

With silver bells and cockle shells
(instruments of torture such as thumbscrews and iron masks)

and pretty maids all in a row
(instruments like the guillotine known as maids to behead enemies)

-FJ

Anonymous said...

Oh what the hell! How can you fight a war, and NOT offend your enemies?

Eat pork Mohammed!

-FJ

Anonymous said...

...but if I were dying of thirst in the dessert, de-hydrated, blurred vision, half-out-of-my-head, I wonder if I could drink camel urine and believe it to be medicine. pig urine???

-FJ

Anonymous said...

A harder question. How can you fight a war, and not at the same time, offend your friends and allies?

Sorry for all the pork eating references, beak!

If they are strong enough, I'm sure they can forgive you. But if they are weak, they might hang on to that feeling of resentment for a long, long time.

Does the sincerity offered with the apology matter?
How about if I follow it up with "acts of contrition"?

-FJ

Warren said...

FJ,
When you are not making my brain itch and burn, you crack me up.

Vis a vis, "Oh what the hell! How can you fight a war, and NOT offend your enemies?

Eat pork Mohammed!"

*****

Some weeds I tolerate others I destroy, some I encourage. If they please me.

The thistle can be most foul but its iridescence blue blossom is beautiful. The milk weed is plain and I must keep it in check, it brings the Monarch Butterfly's to lay their eggs and I love those tiger striped caterpillars. The humming birds come to feed on the honeysuckle which I allow to foul the fence on the back of my property. The shade of my yard around my house and garage is the perfect place for the lilacs which grow there and the wild strawberries, which carpet my back yard, are pleasing to my eye with their tiny yellow blossoms and small, bitter, red fruit.

But I do not tolerate the Jimmson weed and belladonna, (strange that those deadly bits of nature are so closely related and that they share a kinship with the tomato and potato), which always tries to attain a foothold nor the poison sumac, ivy and oak that would soon make an unfit place for me to walk without fear of consequences.

I destroy them, stalk and root.

Anonymous said...

Do you also feel compelled to enter the wild-woods with hoe and spade to eradicate them there as well?

Or do you stop your pursuit of noxious weeds at the fence line?

Or do you spray a "general" herbicide into the air and allow the wind to carry it whither it may? What will the neighbors think? (Best do it at night, when they're asleep than in the bright light of day). Perhaps that's why the Nocturnal Council (Plato, "Laws") meets by moonlight.

But of course, our own sheep do b-a-a-a-a-h and b-a-a-a-a-h and the neighbor dogs bark and growl so much that sometimes it's hard to get any sleep.

The battle with weeds needs to be continuous, but perhaps also "ceasonal" and SPQRADIC...starting perhaps in MARCH and ending around late-Augustus. But then who knows for sure... times and situations change.

There will probably always be poison ivy. Certain locations, like under the signs at crossroads, seem to encourage it's growth.

-FJ

Anonymous said...

or perhaps more plainly, there are "limits" which attach to a right to self-defense, aren't there? At what point does the legitimate pursuit end (Murat, Stuart, where are you?), and become folly?

-FJ

Warren said...

FJ said:
"[...] there are "limits" which attach to a right to self-defense, aren't there?"

Only if I have appeal to law. If I have no appeal, if there is no law, there are no limits except those which I impose on myself.

"At what point does the legitimate pursuit end (Murat, Stuart, where are you?), and become folly?"

When did the English stop perusing the Thugees?

Warren said...

Pursuing

Anonymous said...

from Wikipedia...

Thuggee was suppressed by the British rulers of India in the 1830s, due largely to the efforts of William Sleeman, who started an extensive campaign involving profiling, intelligence, and executions. A police organisation known as the Thuggee and Dacoity Department was established within the Government of India and remained in existence until 1904 when it was replaced by the Central Criminal Intelligence Department. The defeat of the Thuggees played a part in securing Indian loyalty to the British Raj.

According to the Guinness Book of Records the Thuggee cult was responsible for approximately 2,000,000 deaths. Gang leader Behram (or Burham) has often been considered to be the world's most prolific serial killer with 931 killings between 1790 and 1830 attributed to him. Reference to contemporary manuscript sources, however, shows that Behram actually gave inconsistent statements regarding the number of murders he had committed, and that while he did state that he had "been present at" more than 930 killings committed by his gang of 25-50 men, elsewhere he admitted that he had personally strangled no more than 125 people. Having turned King's Evidence and agreed to inform on his former companions, furthermore, Behram never stood trial for any of the killings attributed to him, the total of which must thus remain a matter of dispute [James Paton, 'Collections on Thuggee and Dacoitee', British Library Add.Mss. 41300].


---

Though they themselves trace their origin to seven Muslim tribes, the Hindu followers only seem to be related during the early periods of Islamic development; at any rate, their religious creed and staunch worship of Kali, one of the Hindu Tantric Goddesses, showed no Islamic influence. Assassination for gain was a religious duty for them, and was considered a holy and honorable profession, in which moral feelings did not come into play. It should be noted, however, that not all followers of Kali are thuggees, and the majority do not share the thuggee viewpoint.

---

Almost sounds that we need some "Special Ops" forces hunting down Osama... sound familiar?

-FJ

Anonymous said...

...sounds like all you need to do is cut off the head... and the stalk and root whither and die off on their own.

-FJ

Warren said...

But the Brits and the Raj were the law.

This weed is more prolific and has many heads.

When dealing with the Japanese, at the end of WW2, it was necessary to humiliate them.

Only when Hirohito denounced his "Godship" were we assured that it was over. Otherwise, the occupation of Japan would have been a blood bath.

But it would have been done regardless of the consequences.

Weeds don't die when there heads are removed. They simply grow another.

"Assassination for gain was a religious duty for them, and was considered a holy and honorable profession, in which moral feelings did not come into play."

That also sound familiar.

Always On Watch said...

I missed out on this discussion, I suppose.

nanc said...

looks like we missed some gardening lessons AND while I was out gardening...dayam!

aow - you are a gem!

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Jews, like Muslims, also have a dietary restriction against eating pork.

"And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,
Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts
which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.
Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the
cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat. Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the
hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you." (Leviticus 11:2-8)

(as well as other places)

But Jewish anti-pork restrictions don't have the absolutist bent of Muslim anti-pork restrictions. Jews can keep pigs. For example, The IDF uses wild boars, and uses them effectively, as guard animals in the Arab-occupied territories of Israel east of Jerusalem.

But to a Muslim, no amount of water, soap, sandblasting, prayer, or nuclear blasting will remove the unholiness placed upon everything touched by pork flesh. I exaggerate a little, but the amount of direction given in the Hadiths on how to clean a pot or pan that has been used to cook pork before it's holy enough to be used for camel piss battered falafel seems a little obsessive considering eating pork in the first place is supposed to condemn a man's soul to the worst parts of Muslim hell. Yeah Ahmed, you're going to hell for eating that bacon, but if you don't clean that skillet and say the magic words, everyone who eats something cooked with that skillet will go to hell too. Have a nice day.

What a bunch of hooey. These rubes were anachronistically primitive even 1400 years ago.

(I'll leave delving into the cleaning / purification rituals of Islamic law and their obvious origins in ancient Arabian / Vedic astrological "magick" and tribal superstition for a time when there are more Muslims here to offend)

Anonymous said...

Of course, there are other ways of dealing with weeds. I once knew an old Japanese gardner who was very skilled. He experimented with clipping off single roots and branches and created marvellous miniature table top versions of his weeds, on a scale suitable for placing in pots with his Bonsai's.

And of course, following his example, some amateur American horticulturalists were able to experiment and create a variant of at least two varieties of cherry trees that were given to our country as a gift from Japan a hundred years ago.(the famous Kwanzan and Yoshino varieties). Using certain grafting techniques, they were able to vastly extend the lives of these two varieties of flowering yet-fruitless cherries.

My dream is that one day amateur botanists might attempt to graft an Iraqi variant of the native janjaweed to an Iranian one. But maybe it's just a dream. The vision in my head is still rather blurry and will likely not come to pass. The grafted head might easily fall off and spoil the whole attempt.

But if that attempt should indeed fail, I am confident that the scientific fertilizers they are currently developing will likely accelerate certain genetic mutations in the native janjaweed. And hopefully, their "natural" traits will re-emerge, and overpower the external conditioning that necessitates obsessive pot-scrubbing.

But who knows. I remember seeing some tree's as a child at a "Ripley's" museum that had assumed all sorts of innovative shapes and uses. And those examples were produced long before men had begun experimenting with the original DNA and genetic engineering.

-FJ

nanc said...

beamish - i like zola's idea - hang a bladder of pig blood on every form of public transportation in the nation of israel! you blow this bus up buddy and it's splatter time - pick up the beat!

Warren said...

FJ,
Perhaps your experiment would be deserving of pursuit.

And I would hope that the result wouldn't be reminiscent of another experiment. The one involving African bees and Italian bees.

:^)

Anonymous said...

The fertilizer currently being applied certainly has that potential. In fact, I suspect that the problem we are facing today is largely the result of a previous misguided indiginous scientific attempt to create an "Africanized" hybrid.

-FJ

Anonymous said...

The attempt, however, was not without it's critics at the time.

-FJ

Warren said...

To lapse into plain English; I believe there are two distinct factions one of which has many offshoots and works toward a world Caliphate. The other, Iran, while ostensibly wanting that goal, actually is trying to advance the arrival of the Mahdi, "twelfth Imam".

I believe that the latter are the greater threat!

Anonymous said...

...you are right about one thing, apocalyptic fantasies in the nuclear age are very scary things... as are titles like "Supreme Leader", religious or otherwise. The Shi'a are stepping out after millenia of Sunni domination. It takes a while to learn the lessons of good government. To me, al-Sistani seems to provide a "cooler" head, and is more circumspect in the use of his influence. I hope it "rubs" off on his "peers" (although thankfully, you can't really call them that).

As for the Sunni, now that's another problem entirely. They're "old school" and have dominated the region, and their neighbors, for millenia. Osama is simply an "over-ripe" fruit. And so long as the Kingdom is able to isolate itself and minimize outside influence, that situation is unlikely to change.

Attempts to expand their religious "reach" into Europe and America and control Islamic "scholarship" world-wide, are very troubling developments, IMO. And to me, represent the "hidden" reach of the "Caliphate"... the 12th and still hidden imam.

-FJ

Anonymous said...

I'm surprised that Muslim's aren't open to idea's behind the Holy Trinity.

-FJ

Anonymous said...

But then again, perhaps they are. These idea's probably were not entirely "foreign" prior and subsequent to MtP's "birth".

-FJ

Warren said...

" I'm surprised that Muslims aren't open to idea's behind the Holy Trinity."

They acknowledge a "Holy Spirit", but given their views, resting in the "spirit" would seem to be more akin to demonic possession. (from my perspective)

I guess that old Mo couldn't start out as a prophet then turn into the son of God. They have that whole slave of God thing going too.

I can't see the Muslim version of the son of God sacrificing himself for a bunch of slaves.

I can't decide whether al-Sistan is a cooler head or if he's playing a power game, of course those things aren't mutually exclusive.

Thank you for the discussion

Anonymous said...

Thank you, Warren.

...and you may be right. Power can be quite an intoxicant.

-FJ

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