Tuesday, March 21, 2006

Hard to Believe but Anum Muhktar in the Hot Seat???

This segment will be educational as I am not going to get into theology ? Quoting Scriptures is a big bore and all of us know where we stand ? A host invites a guest for an interview. My job is not to beat up the guest but there will be no softball questions. I ask all of my readers to endulge my attempt to learn some mundane facets of Islamic life.

1 Lets start with the basic are the following groups Muslims Bhai's, Nation of Islam ( Louis Farkhan's outfit ) and Alawites ?
2 What are Sufis ?
3 Muslims in NYC often are well aware of the Kosher symbols on food. Do you look for the local kosher symbols when you buy food ?
4 Describe the difference between a Nika and Mutah marriage ? I did reject an applicants mutah marriage contract a few months ago.
5 I have seen plenty of Nika certificates most dictate financial terms . These terms include the standard gold, domestic animals and oddly once or twice White Kola Nuts.
Who determines the terms of these contracts and are there bargain basement specials.

West
6 Do you accept the laws and standards of the West while you dwell here ?
7 Does the public display of religious symbols bother you such as a Christmas Tree or Menorah ?
8 Do you respect the rights of a coworker who eats a Pork Sandwich or is Gay ?
9 Islam prohibits alcohol but does it permit hashish, opium and Khat ?

General
10 Do you play or watch sports ?
11 Have you tried Ice Skating or Skiing ?
12 Have you seen the movie Lord of the Rings or read the books ?
13 Where do you get your news ?
14 Is state controlled media a problem in the Muslim world ?
15 Are there comic strips in your newspapers back home ? Would any of these Comic strips be familiar such as Garfield ?
16 There is a stereotype of Muslims having no sense of humor. Do any of our TV shows
stand out as funny ?
17 What American TV shows can you watch in your local TV station back in your native country ?
18 Can you get Western Music on short wave radios in your home country ?
19 Can you explain the system of Halawa to the readers. I understand interest is prohibited in Islam.
20 Have you heard of Stephen Schwartz or the Center of Islamic Studies ?
21 How do you feel about CAIR ?
22 Would you describe Zakhat as a tax or charity . My understanding is it is a tax.
23 Is corruption of government officials a problem in your home country ?
24 What do you think is the cause of high unemployment in Muslim countries ?
25 Would you eat in a Jewish Kosher resturant ?

57 comments:

nanc said...

anum - what puts a smile on your face and keeps it there?

do you have a funny bone?

Always On Watch said...

I'll be back for this one!

Anum Mahktar said...

I would like to say that before I start I should tell you something little about myself. I lived most of my life in Pakistan where my father and his father's before him have lived. My mother is Iranian and came to Pakistan to escape the Revolution in 1980. I am a mother and I have two children here in America. My husband works with the military as translating reports for them. He studied at the University of North Carolina in the early 1980s before returning to Pakistan. Now we live in Maryland.

Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the World; and blessings and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad and upon all his Family and Companions.


1 Lets start with the basic are the following groups Muslims Bhai's, Nation of Islam ( Louis Farkhan's outfit ) and Alawites ?

Yes in the same way Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, Baptist and Catholics are all Christians.

2 What are Sufis ?

Sufis are Islamic mystics. They believe they are following a spiritual path. Some compare them to Buddhist monks. Many Sufis have replaced Allah for their journey. This is a false path.

3 Muslims in NYC often are well aware of the Kosher symbols on food. Do you look for the local kosher symbols when you buy food ?

No because this is not necessary. All food preparation must be done according to Islamic standards. As with all animals, the slaughtering must be done by Muslims while facing mecca. This is called Halal and must be performed under strict supervision. Even the plants where the materials originate must meet approval.

4 Describe the difference between a Nika and Mutah marriage ?

The prophet himself has banned Mutah. Only Shi'ite would participate in temporary marriages. This is a form of prostitution.

5 I have seen plenty of Nika certificates most dictate financial terms . These terms include the standard gold, domestic animals and oddly once or twice White Kola Nuts.
Who determines the terms of these contracts and are there bargain basement specials.

I do not know what a bargain basement is but all terms of marriage and inheritance are according to Islamic law. All that is required is that it should be done according to local custom in the husband is required to pay a mutually agreed Mahr. Nika is a declared union to live willingly as man and wife.

6 Do you accept the laws and standards of the West while you dwell here ?

Of course we do. We still follow Islamic customs but there is not as much conflict as most people believe it to be. Of course it would be much better to have Sharia Law.

7. Does the public display of religious symbols bother you such as a Christmas Tree or Menorah ?

No it does not at all, but Muslims should avoid participating in any non-Islamic holidays. A Muslim celebrates only the Islamic Eid days. This is unlike Shi'ites who participate in celebrating the Persian New Year. Celebrating such feasts is actually imitating unbelievers.

8 Do you respect the rights of a coworker who eats a Pork Sandwich or is Gay ?

Any relations outside of marriage is forbidden and is considered fornication and adultery, but homosexuality is worse.
Homosexuality is a perversion, it is forbidden in religion and it is an abominable and despicable act in its nature.

It is forbidden for Muslims to sit at a table if someone is eating pork or even any meat not slaughtered according to Islamic law. If I have a coworker who is eating pork, normally I will just not sit at the place they are.

9 Islam prohibits alcohol but does it permit hashish, opium and Khat ?

All of these are forbidden but Muslims are like all people and make mistakes. If the person repents Allah will forgive but his prayers will not be accepted for 40 days.


General
10 Do you play or watch sports ?

When I was young, I played soccer and I still enjoy watching.

11 Have you tried Ice Skating or Skiing ?

No I have never had the chance.

12 Have you seen the movie Lord of the Rings or read the books ?

No but I do enjoy watching some Western movies as long as it does not contain exposing women's bodies and do not lead a person to miss an Islamic obligation.
One will be asked on Judgment Day about his time and life so one should not waste too much time constantly watching these kinds of movies.

13 Where do you get your news ?

Mostly over the Internet. Al Jazeera and the BBC are who I usually look at.

14 Is state controlled media a problem in the Muslim world ?

This is the same problem you have here with your news. Al Jazeera can be watched at most countries but you need to look also other places to find the truth.

15 Are there comic strips in your newspapers back home ? Would any of these Comic strips be familiar such as Garfield ?

We have in our newspapers much like what you have. National news, international news, local, sports, editorials and even cartoons. I do not know Garfield

16 There is a stereotype of Muslims having no sense of humor. Do any of our TV shows
stand out as funny ?

Everybody has a sense of humor. This is to be human. If you see something funny then people laugh undeliberately. I do not watch many comedies here because they contain sex stories and music which is forbidden. TV in general is time wasting and leads to neglecting many duties. It contains obscene songs and amoral advertisements that show naked or semi nude women.

17 What American TV shows can you watch in your local TV station back in your native country ?

Unless you have a satellite which we did not have there is no American TV shows.

18 Can you get Western Music on short wave radios in your home country ?

Music and the musical instruments are forbidden in Shariah. We are told that those who refuse to profit from Allah’s words, and who listen to music & songs will be humiliated in the Hell. This is the official Hadith but many people like myself enjoy listening to music. That you must know is that Pakistan is a very populated country and there are those who try to enforce very strictly. Here in America there is more freedom.

19 Can you explain the system of Halawa to the readers. I understand interest is prohibited in Islam.

?? I do not know what this is.


20 Have you heard of Stephen Schwartz or the Center of Islamic Studies ?

"Believers, Jews, Christians, and Sabaeans -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right -- shall be rewarded by their Lord; they have nothing to fear or to regret." Qur'an 2:62

21 How do you feel about CAIR ?

I think it is to influenced by Shi'ites

22 Would you describe Zakhat as a tax or charity . My understanding is it is a tax.

That this is a religious obligation makes it a charity. This is for helping me better living conditions. Isn't this what you would call alms?


23 Is corruption of government officials a problem in your home country ?

Isn't this true even of America? That we live in an Islamic Republic is not the same as living in a true Islamic state so yes corruption is a problem. In every country there is corruption.

24 What do you think is the cause of high unemployment in Muslim countries ?

To many of our government's have made deals with oil companies such as those in America in Britain and this money does not go into the economy to help reduce unemployment and make new jobs. Too much money is in the hands of greedy businessman and greedy politicians. Unless you have the right connections that you cannot get into the good schools. Without a good education you cannot get a skilled job Also our population is increasing too fast so that there are many working age people.


25 Would you eat in a Jewish Kosher resturant ?

It is unlawful for the Muslim to befriend disbelievers so I would never eat in a Jewish restaurant.
This doesn't mean that all Jews and Christians are my enemies but if we must work together I keep my personal life separate. I prefer staying with other Muslims.

beakerkin said...

Pakistan is comprised of five groups. Are you a Baluch, Mohajair,
Sind or Pathan.

Halawa is the system of money transfers between countries much like Western Union Person A goes to an agent in NYC and sends money to his family in Karachi. My spelling may be off a bit.

nanc said...

anum said:

"Yes in the same way Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, Baptist and Catholics are all Christians."

untrue statement. witnesses and mormons are cults! nix that one.

nanc said...

anum said:

"Of course we do. We still follow Islamic customs but there is not as much conflict as most people believe it to be. Of course it would be much better to have Sharia Law."

nanc responds:

"not before i draw my last breath."

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Ditto What Nanc said...

nanc said...

anum said:

"All of these are forbidden but Muslims are like all people and make mistakes. If the person repents Allah will forgive but his prayers will not be accepted for 40 days."

nanc says:

"i don't have to wait forty days - the G-d of israel forgives me as the words pass my mouth and puts my sin in the sea of forgetfulness!"

nanc said...

anum said:

"Everybody has a sense of humor. This is to be human. If you see something funny then people laugh undeliberately. I do not watch many comedies here because they contain sex stories and music which is forbidden. TV in general is time wasting and leads to neglecting many duties. It contains obscene songs and amoral advertisements that show naked or semi nude women."

nanc says:

"get skyangel satellite service - 36 channels of family and faith based programming - no nudity, no foul language or harsh subject matter - unless you consider fox news harsh."

nanc said...

anum says:

""Believers, Jews, Christians, and Sabaeans -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right -- shall be rewarded by their Lord; they have nothing to fear or to regret." Qur'an 2:62"

the holy bible - inspired word of Yahweh says:

"Yeshua said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life: no one comes to the Father except by Me. john14:6"

nanc said...

anum says:

"Music and the musical instruments are forbidden in Shariah. We are told that those who refuse to profit from Allah’s words, and who listen to music & songs will be humiliated in the Hell. This is the official Hadith but many people like myself enjoy listening to music. That you must know is that Pakistan is a very populated country and there are those who try to enforce very strictly. Here in America there is more freedom."

Yahweh says in His inspired Word:

"make a joyful noise unto Jehovah God, ALL the earth. psalm66:1"

nanc said...

anum says:

"It is unlawful for the Muslim to befriend disbelievers so I would never eat in a Jewish restaurant.
This doesn't mean that all Jews and Christians are my enemies but if we must work together I keep my personal life separate. I prefer staying with other Muslims."

nanc says:

"why are you here then?"

nanc said...

my work here is done - now i must go do the job i am paid to do.

Freedomnow said...

Very fascinating...and Leftists accuse Bush of being a religious fanatic.

Anum you seem like a nice person (at least very polite). Unfortunately, your interpretation of Islam is very strict. I believe that you can be a good Muslim without hating Shiites, non-believers and gays (what have they done to anyone besides themselves?).

Your religious segregation does not show goodwill to your fellow humanity.

However, I would have to say that you show some spunk for doing this interview.

Beak,

This is a score! Chomsky is next...

beakerkin said...

I agree with Freedom Now.

I thank Anum but am deeply troubled by this interview on about
six or seven levels. America is a multinational ethnic tolerant society. In my opinion one can not be an American an live as an outsider.

I do not see Justin as Gay or Mr Beamish as Christian. I see everyone as Ameicans and this division botheres me.

nanc said...

anum - you are a very good sport. thank you for enlightening u.s.

nanc said...

beak - we are what we belong to. whatever we strive for is what owns us. we all serve a god, whether it be fast cars, sex, candy, soda, alcohol, a bigger house, a better job.

something owns you and me. it is what we think about above all else.

the three major faiths are full of people who serve a god - what god that is does not necessarily make it THE G-d. it takes much research and when one succumbs to it it's no longer second nature.

as a christian, i would hope to be seen as a christian first, woman, wife and mother second. i cannot deny my G-d as i do not want to be denied by Him.

anum, as mislead as she is, has the guts of a warrior to come and do this interview and i applaud her.

beakerkin said...

Nanc

I agree with Anum being a sport.However, I am disturbed by parts of this interview. The divisiveness disturbs me greatly.

I would gladly have lunch with Justin or Rob. Mr Beamish could run over some food for us.

MZ is a part of the culture and not seperate from it.

I am bothered by this interview but am glad to have done it.

nanc said...

then dissect it for all it's worth. i am also bothered by it. i'll have a salad if beamish is going for food. fern is a semi-vegetarian. oh, and for dessert a payday candy bar.

Anum Mahktar said...

I am impressed with your knowledge of Pakistan. Both of my parents are Baluch, there are not many in Iran after the revolution as there was before. My mother's family left because sectarian violence was growing in Iran. The Mohajir are Arab refugees or immigrants. Most Pakistani are not have Arab origin. Sindh's are Hindus and not Muslims.

Anum Mahktar said...

nanc I am here because this is what my husband says. America is a safe country and most people are kind and respect your privacy. My children go to private school and my oldest son is a big Redskins fan.

Anum Mahktar said...

From Beak "America is a multinational ethnic tolerant society. In my opinion one can not be an American an live as an outsider."

America was made by ethnic groups that do not interact until sometimes second third or even fourth generations. Irish, Italians Greeks all lived near each other in closed communities.

Yes America is a multinational ethnic society but not so 'tolerant'. There are many communities that I would not feel safe in. Surprisingly for me is that in America I would feel more safe at a Jewish community then in some of the black and Hispanic communities that I have seen.

I have also noticed that many communities also keep much to themselves. Chinese communities although want business with outsiders but outsiders aren't welcomed to be in their community. This is also true of other ethnic groups and this I know many of you agree. Koreans are very closed.

Even in Islamic communities there are Arab and non-Arab groups that do not mix. Different sects such as Shi'ite, Sunni, Yazidis and Druze do not interact. Is this not just a valid of a choice?

beakerkin said...

The observation about Koreans is 100% false. The area of Staten Island I grew up in was heavily Korean. I went to many homes and visa versa and serveral intermarried.

This does not reflect my experiences with Chinese either.
I dated several Chinese women and socialized with many Chinese people.

You may have one of the rare posters that can name all of the above groups you mentioned. The Yezidi do not consider themselves Shia. Perhaps you are mistaking them with Alawites whose views are
disturbing.

The Baluch are critical on the war on terror. Several high Al Queda leaders have been Baluch including Khalid Sheik Mohammed.

Mad Zionist said...

I hate to rain on the love train, but...

Is there any doubt that islam is a terrorist organization? To impose Sharia Law, as she desires, is akin to enslaving or killing all non believers of islam. Her family's active participation in this violent, criminal organization makes them very dangerous, and should be reason enough to have them deported from this country.

I am not concerned that she wants to be among her own; that's normal for us all. But being active in a terrorist organization which aggressively seeks to destroy all those who believe differently is not freedom of religion, nor is it any other protected right to assemble. It's a serious crime and should not be appeased.

Moslems must be made to understand that America will not allow them to turn us into another Eurabia. Unless they are willing to renounce the principles of Jihad, dhimmitude and Sharia Law they cannot be compatable with our society.

-MZ

nanc said...

i believe she is a he no matter what was stated. this is either a punk job, or an investigation. reading between the lines brought me to that conclusion - the u.s. must follow australian suit and deport anybody who will not assimilate to judeo christian values, the basis for which our nation was created.

you're spot on madze. as usual.

beakerkin said...

Anum

What Italiaians and Greeks are you dealing with ? I meet all these groups back home in NYC. Your descriptions do not match my life experiences.

I do not see people as Jews, Methodists, etc. Warren, Beamish, MZ, Nanc, Always on the Watch are like family to me. I do not even know or care what Mr Beamish's ethnicity is. Beamish and the others are American and we transcend such matters.

Your views are consistent with the old world. An American transcends the views you expressed.

nanc said...

beamish is definitely a roman god. definitely.

Kyle said...

I have muslim neighbors who are also from Pakistan. However, your views and theirs are not similar. Interstingly, my Pakistani neighbor has a low opinion of most Arabs.

Always On Watch said...

Anum,
First, let me thank you for sitting for this interview. My comments here mean no disrespect, but here in American I have the freedom to make the comments and to ask questions. You have the right not to like the comments and the right not to respond. A free society!

Anum:
Music and the musical instruments are forbidden in Shariah. We are told that those who...listen to music & songs will be humiliated in the Hell.

I can't go along with that. No instruments? Certain music might be disturbing or possibly sinful, but not a hellbound offense, in and of itself.

I don't mean to be flip here, but what do you do when Muzak is playing in the background? Or is just the making of music forbidden?

It is unlawful for the Muslim to befriend disbelievers...I prefer staying with other Muslims.

I find that of great concern. Creating a wall which prevents mutual understanding and the sharing of ideas. It's one think to disagree with those who are not Muslim, quite another not to be friends with infidels. We infidels are automatically beneath you?

Or are ideas which do not originate with Muslims of no worth? Undeserving of any consideration or respect? That kind of attitude is the basis of persecution, IMO.

Question: Is democracy compatible with Islam?

Question: What do you think of the idea that Islam can be "reformed"?

Anum Mahktar said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
MissingLink said...

Anum,
You are either a not a very strict Muslim or just pretend not to understand the Qur'an (perhaps your knowledge of the Holy Scripture is not very good).
Muslims and Infidels work together???

"Believers, Jews, Christians, and Sabaeans -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right -- shall be rewarded by their Lord; they have nothing to fear or to regret." Qur'an 2:62"

The verse you quote from The Cow
can only apply if the they do convert - the stress should be on:
"and does what is right"

To make thinks absolutely clear your Allah expressed his real will a few verses "later":

2:87 And verily We gave unto Moses the Scripture and We caused a train of messengers to follow after him, and We gave unto Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's sovereignty), and We supported him with the Holy spirit. Is it ever so, that, when there cometh unto you a messenger (from Allah) with that which ye yourselves desire not, ye grow arrogant, and some ye disbelieve and some ye slay ?
2:88 And they say: Our hearts are hardened. Nay, but Allah hath cursed them for their unbelief. Little is that which they believe

Despite Allah's teachings the people of the Scripture do not really believe and so good Allah cursed them!!

And just to make sure that other Muslims dod not get confused which verse (or part of it) should apply, Allah invented another rule:
"the latest rule replaces the previous one".

2:106 Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things?

And so Allh clearly states that we, infidels have DIFFERENT gods than Muslims:

2:257 Allah is the Protecting Guardian of those who believe. He bringeth them out of darkness into light. As for those who disbelieve, their patrons are false deities. They bring them out of light into darkness. Such are rightful owners of the Fire. They will abide therein.

And so you may tolerate Infidels for a while untill Allah decides otherwise:

2:109 Many of the people of the Scripture long to make you disbelievers after your belief, through envy on their own account, after the truth hath become manifest unto them. Forgive and be indulgent (toward them) until Allah give command. Lo! Allah is Able to do all things.

And of course at the end it is your duty to fight the Infidel or otherwise you can find yourself in hell:
9:73 O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end.

9:81 Those who were left behind rejoiced at sitting still behind the messenger of Allah, and were averse to striving with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way. And they said: Go not forth in the heat! Say: The fire of hell is more intense of heat, if they but understood.

nanc said...

tooshay aow and missing link. great points, set and match.

Always On Watch said...

Missing Link's citations--Wow!

MissingLink said...

Nanc,
If you have any doubts about Anum's loyalties check out American Crusaider's comments section here: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=17233580&postID=114305835604895733

nanc said...

i never had any doubts - i just doubt she is a she. and i've made my appearance and appeal at the site you posted. we need to be in the mindset of this being ideological, no more, no less.

my son-in-law is an apologetics pastor and i am going to grill him this weekend.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

beamish is definitely a roman god. definitely.

I do have a fondness for Ancient European mythology, but I'm a mere mortal.

Beak - I'm a ethnic mutt. "Caucasian" on most census forms, even though I've never been to the Ukraine.

nanc said...

you mean you're not a brutha?

nanc said...

silly me - i should have known by your accent! llol!

drummaster2001 said...

nanc and missing link:

excellent work!! [golf clapping]

nanc said...

missing link = one of my new heros, drummaster - i was limited on time today and ran out of koranlet paper or by G-d i would have cited it!

loo-loo skip to the loo!

thanks drummaster.

Pim's Ghost said...

I have a theological question, actually. The God of the Jews and Christians referred to Himself by saying "I Am". YHWH. Is this statement similarly recorded and if so, studied in the Quran? Does "Allah" use this way of describing Himself? As "I Am"?

Just something that occurred to me while reading this, and now I'm quite curious.

nanc said...

p.g. - an excellent question you should probably pointedly pose to missing link or american crusader. now, i am curious also.

i do know that "ala" in hebrew is a curse and "12" times in the o.t. is used specifically for this purpose. as eschatology and gematria in the bible interest me, "12" is a divine to the Divine.

Pim's Ghost said...

It's just such a major theme both in Judaism and in Christianity. Even Jesus said this.

Maybe Eteraz or Avenging Apostate would weigh in.

MissingLink said...

Pim's Ghost,
Does "Allah" use this way of describing Himself? As "I Am"?

Yes.
Unlike the Bible where Yahve is only "quoted" from time to time, The Qur'an is believed to be exact words of Allah, who revealed all this jazz to Mo during numerous sessions.
It's funny though because on 2 occasions Muhammed forgot about the fact it was supposed to be Allah speaking anh addresses his audience as Mo himself:

6:104 Proofs have come unto you from your Lord, so whoso seeth, it is for his own good, and whoso is blind is blind to his own hurt. And I am not a keeper over you.

6:114 Shall I seek other than Allah for judge, when He it is Who hath revealed unto you (this) Scripture, fully explained ? Those unto whom We gave the Scripture (aforetime) know that it is revealed from thy Lord in truth. So be not thou (O Muhammad) of the waverers.

Obviously Mo forgot himself a little bit (one does get tired) and the scribes did not dare to change these verses.

orangeducks said...

What a fantastic opportunity. That Anum chose to respond honestly and sincerely to these questions and post her answers for all to see and dissect is truly commendable.

Regardless of the specifics that many here have addressed, one can't help but to come away with a better appreciation of the distance between devout Muslim beliefs and traditional American/Western ideals.

Religion doesn't matter much in the typical Western mindset. Not so for much of the world, especially the Muslim parts.

The Eurolib elites and American university despots will tell you that the current clash is due to past international territorial disputes, or 20th-century corporate greed, or lack of economic opportunity.

But the main difference is RELIGION and CULTURE. No one is at fault for those things, but when they clash, there is no quick and easy cause, nor is there a quick and easy fix.

The divide between modern Western and Muslim values is HUGE, as Anum's interview here clearly indicates.

We are lucky for this unfiltered opportunity to learn.

orangeducks

Always On Watch said...

Orange Ducks:
Religion doesn't matter much in the typical Western mindset. Not so for much of the world, especially the Muslim parts.

The Eurolib elites and American university despots will tell you that the current clash is due to past international territorial disputes, or 20th-century corporate greed, or lack of economic opportunity.

But the main difference is RELIGION and CULTURE. No one is at fault for those things, but when they clash, there is no quick and easy cause, nor is there a quick and easy fix.

The divide between modern Western and Muslim values is HUGE, as Anum's interview here clearly indicates.


I'm nodding my head in agreement. Thanks to the pc and multiculti crowd, we have lost our cultural conviction, along with the moral conviction.

Recently, I read that Tony Blair doesn't want to refer to the West as "we." He refuses to face the threat.

Our leaders want dialogue and compromise, but Anum shows us the certitude that Muslims have about the tenets they hold. The West, on the other hand, has become wishy-washy.

Let me be clear....I harbor no animosity toward Anum. I disagree, but that's different.

Anum's statement that shari'ah law is better upsets me greatly as shari'ah law does not incorporate American values. And if shari'ah law conflicts with American Constitutional law, Muslims are to follow shari'ah law, right? Isn't Paradise at stake, as Missing Link pointed out?

It doesn't bother me in the least that Muslims seem to believe that those of us who are not are doomed to hell. Pushing me into that confine is another matter altogether, of course.

Now, I am product enough of American culture to feel uneasy even posing the questions I did. But Anum is convinced of her path. See the difference? And that difference may bring down Western civilization.

Pim's Ghost said...

missing--that statement from "Allah" is not quite the same as giving identity as "I am". I need more. Of course if it is there, it can also be assumed that Mo borrowed it as he borrowed so much else. But I'm still curious.

nanc said...

p.g. - when i began studying the "I Am" aspect - i nearly went mad - it was like a family tree that went back thousands of years before i finally said "enough!" we'll never know fully that aspect of G-d in this life. it was meant to be that way. powerful - mighty powerful. i do know this, the Great "I Am" was not the one speaking to muhammed the child molester.

Pim's Ghost said...

nanc--I don't know why this all just now occured to me, and I do agree that "I Am" was not the one speaking to MO. Actually, I think the talking was being done by Mo entirely. Still, I became curious last night on this one. There has been much theological work on this subject in both Judaism and Christianity. But is there any of this identification in the quran? "Allah" describes himself in many ways, such as being "merciful" to those who follow his guidelines, etc., but does he ever as "I Am"?

nanc said...

if, and that's a big if, he ever did - he is an imposter. a wannabe - they say that's who the enemy will portray in the end of days. think about it. could be a type or shadow of things to come. the Shepherd knows the sheep as well as the sheep know the Shepherd.

remember, theirs is not to identify or question - theirs is to obey. ours is to identify and question and obey accordingly. there is a difference as wide as the chasm in abraham's bosom, if you know what i mean.

nanc said...

p.s. p.g. - what is most curious is why this forum, and why now? the cop in me is overwhelming the sensible me. they're doing battle as we speak - stop it! dayam i wish those two would knock it off!

Anonymous said...

So Amun,

Are you a member of the Islamic Thinkers Society (ITS)? Most of your web-site postings seem to have rather radical "roots" there. Wasn't that a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood? Just curious.

-FJ

kev said...

Unlike daffy, I do not claim to be a learned intellect who has all the answers, so please forgive my oversimplification, but it seems to me that, if a muslim strictly follows the teachings of islam, there can never be democracy within that society. Nor, again strictly following their teachings, can thier be lasting peace with non-muslims. There can perhaps be a temporary tolerance of a sort, but never a real, lasting peace. Especailly since many (most?) of their clerics seem to be the most warlike of them all.

Avenging Apostate said...

Pim's Ghost,

I have a theological question, actually. The God of the Jews and Christians referred to Himself by saying "I Am". YHWH. Is this statement similarly recorded and if so, studied in the Quran? Does "Allah" use this way of describing Himself? As "I Am"?

Just something that occurred to me while reading this, and now I'm quite curious.


Nice question. No, as far as I can remember. I don't recall reading anything like that. Go according to the Islamic explanation and commentary--Allah does refer to himself as 'Allah' in third person. But he never says that he is 'I AM' or any equivalent of it in Arabic. Allah has many names, as you rightly mentioned, which are more rightly called his attributes, but he doesn't have 'I AM' as one of them.

Many scholars, however, give the word 'Allah' some similar qualities--in the end saying that it can't be truly explained. So Allah, though doesn't call himself YAHWEH, tries to pass himself off as his equal or someone better than him.

Anyway, I too don't believe there is a being called Allah, I think it was Mohammed who dictated the Koran.

MissingLink said...

Kev,
You are correct.
There is no way that democracy is possible with Islam not fully separated from the state.
Then if you take Islam seriously you cannot separate it from the state because it means automatic apostasy.
Mustafa Kemal tried to go around this problem by putting mullahs on the state payroll and organizing government funded Muslim seminaries (schools for mullahs) and so he created a version of State Islam.
Yet, as soon as he tried, during his time as the leader of Turkey, to move away from dictatorship into "more" democratic form of government, the Muslim parties immediately gained the upper hand tried to get rid of the church-state separation in all aspects of public life.
We can observe a similar phenomenon in Indonesia, where removal of dictatorship encouraged militant Islam to seek Islamization of the state (Sharia), which still has both civil and criminal law based on colonial Dutch legislation.

Pim's Ghost said...

Apostate, thanks for the answer on this one.
Nanc, and anyone else who wondered, I just happened to have seen Mother Angelica on EWTN discussing the "I Am" aspect of scripture right before I read this and one of the questions above (don't even remember which one)just brought it to my mind.

nanc said...

the phenomenon CANNOT be fully explained - but there is enough to confirm diety. ironic how a relationship with G-d just leaves you longing for more - never satisfied. He is so intriguing.