Saturday, June 04, 2005

The revolutionary falacy

One of the things that amazes me about some leftist Utopians is a lack of vision. The
scary thing with some on the left is they honestly do not know how to talk to a moderate. Some do not even know what a moderate is . The bottom line is that I am exactly the type of person liberals need to win over.

This is the falacy of the radicals. Screaming loud and being self righteous may make
you feel good but it advances nothing. The anger and rage feeds itself and nothing ever gets advanced. People do not listen to angry whiny voices and they push people away.

Radicals blow up bridges and get nowhere . Moderates build bridges and move ahead
towards their objective. The question I ask radicals do you want progress or do you want to make a mess and feel good.

The question the liberals need to ask is who lost the Beak. Why am I a moderate so complettely disgusted with the left ? The answer is incompettance on the part of the liberals.

1 Communist Utopian leftists are not to be coddled . They are seditious by nature and for every vote they give you it costs you three. You may rail about Falwell but given the choice of Falwell or Michael Moore most americans would choose Falwell.

2 Do not accept excesses of speech on the left. Bush = Hitler is an absurd offensive
campaign. The whole Bush lied bit is a problem

3 Pick one topic per rant.I like Rob Bayn but placing Iraq, Gays and about two other
topics together dilutes the message. If you want to adress an issue one at a time
otherwise it becomes a rant

4 Stay positive in your message and hold the door open. I always leave the door open
for people to join me except for Communists and White Supremacy idiots. Some day AC
Patriot or B might agree with me on something so the door is open.You do not open doors by ranting on Religious figures or faith.
This post eliminates 167 as he is a communist, anti american , anti semitic etc .

5 Stay away from blame America first. You may worry about what they think of us in Europe and the Muslim world. This is a two way street and they should start showing
concern with how we percieve them. What you are essentially doing is aping Euro-Muslim Anti-Americanism. Most of the former is based in anti capitalism and the later
religious fervor. You are enabling a sickness and being masochistic when you play that game.

My advice to Rob Bayn is that burning bridges is easy. You might even have a fun time doing it. However if you think advancing Gay rights will come by a radical -liberal alliance you are wrong. You must reach out to people like Neptune, Warren,
Jason and the Beak somewhat. I add somewhat in my case because it is a largely won battle in my case. We disagree on style and minor points build consensus move foward.
It is harder to build bridges but it is essential for true progress.

Revolutionaries and Radicals are great for tearing down structure but blowing up bridges is more romantic then building them.

18 comments:

justin said...

You know reading the different blogs I have come to one conclusion.

Most of it is like I was when I was growing up on the ranch.

I would run around ranting and raving about how things were and about the people running things.

My Granddaddy would pull me to the side and say "Ok boy I hear you ranting and raving about the way things are now give me your solutions. Leave the people out of it and give me your solutions to the policies." Then he would tell me you know its a whole lot easier to tear down the barn than it is to build it.

So my challenge here is. You dont like this government or how this country is run tell me your solutions and what your going to put in its place. No dont rant about Bush et.al. dont rant about the military. Give me clear concise changes you will make and then lets analyze against history.

Anyone want to take me up on this challenge?

Jason_Pappas said...

Looking for common ground isn’t always easy. I commend you, beak, for being forthright and saying “here’s where we might meet and find areas of agreement” but pointing out that there are absurd positions that close the door on any further constructive discussion.

I don’t know why so many of those on the left want to alienate the middle. The Republicans greatest asset is the suicidal absurdity of the left. The recent campaign to vilify our nations foreign policy – no, not disagree on practical details, but condemn as evil – has made many people recoil in horror. This is particularly true when they cheer Islamo-fascist terrorists as the Minutemen. And it is just not the fringe - but those who sit in the guest of honor box at the Democratic Convention.

Always On Watch said...

Beak,
The liberals (not leftist utopians because the lu's tend to avoid a conservative Christian) whom I know lost faith in the Democratic Party when the Bush = Hitler diatribes started. Recently, the Guantanamo = gulag issue has had a similar effect on those who understand what the word 'gulag' entails. The Bush-lied issue doesn't seem to matter. Maybe because we expect politicians to lie?

Justin,
Your challenge is an excellent one. I'll be interested to see the responses. If I remember my history correctly, rantings and ravings almost sank the Consitutional Convention back in 1787. Once the whining from what we today call "special interest groups," stopped, the conventioners got down to business.

ric ottaiano said...

beak: just was referred to your blog by my contributor...love it! and will be coming back for more on a regular basis...keep up the good work...

Joe said...

Hmmm Justins grandaddy was a smart man.
As for our governmant and country goes I dont think there is another country in the world that has the freedoms we have. We may not always agree wth what they do or what they say but for the number of years its been in existance I dont think there is anything that can give us the freedoms we have or another country where you can actually speak out against what they are doing and notbe afraid of reprisals

Tonto said...

Beak...I have a blog called the last moderate...so when I found your blog I knew I found someone like me...I have been coming back ever since...so I recommended you to the other blog where I contribute and now he loves it too.

You have great site...thanks.

Joe said...

Beak
This isthe first blog i've really been to and like what i've read.
I'll be comming back.

beakerkin said...

Justin

Is 100% about building things. I thank him more then I can ever say.
Being called a coward on 9-11 for running for safety hurts. In a way
it was what I was supposed to do.

Blowing up things is just sexier then taking out the trash or taking kids to school . Radicals fall for the sex appeal and fail at the depth.

Jason
I try to tell people like the chemist I am a moderate. Some people have just fallen off the map. If they really care about Gay Rights and Peace they have to reach out to Beakers, Neptunes, Jason. They seem more intent on sticking their finger in my eye.
Blaming America first and aping Euro- AntiAmericanism is not a good idea.

Radicals are all sex appeal sans depth.

Always : Liberals think that Falwell is the equivalent of Chomsky . Even his worst critics do not say he is seditious.

Ric: I am an anti- communist moderate. I am not as uncommon as people think . People assume that conservatives all are off the map.
Most are more liberal on social issues then assumed.

Joe: Justin is a brilliant man in his own right.

Georgina There are plenty of moderates and some of the post here. Warren and Jason post mainly
on the war and are not as extreeme
as they seem.

Please believe me there are plenty of people that call me a right wing extreemist. The term is relative compared to Castro I am right Wing.

justin said...

Georgina,

I have been called a right wing extremist myself now you talk about a confusing conundrum.I was just told in another blog I must be " A homosexual right wing extremist"

Talk about bordering on insane that does. I am a moderate who happens to be gay. Sorry all you folks out there if you think believing in Mother Apple Pie and the American way of life is extreme all I can say is get a life and live with it.

Always On Watch said...

Falsely calling someone "right wing extremist" is an attempt to discredit and to silence. A Rudy Republican is definitely not a right wing extremist.

justin said...

agreed always but it is a free country and the freedom of speech is guaranteed to all. That is why moderates have to not let either the Xtreme right or Xtreme left make them take their eyes off the wheel.

justin said...

Bleak,

I know it must be hard but dont let yourself get caught up in the coward thing. The first natural thing in a human is survival. Stop and look at it this way if you had not saved yourself would anyone else be telling us of their experience. Would anyone else have brought so many people of diverse backgrounds and beliefs together in one common cause. Would other sites be as open as you have made yours.

You my friend were saved fo a reason. Yes, Virgina there is a God an he does move in many mysterious ways that we fail to understand.

Bleak never in my eyes in a million years would I accept you being a coward. Those who call you that where were they, did they run? No one knows the horror or the intense saddnes that was laid upon your heart to be with you for the rest of your life.

May God shine his countenance upon you and bless your house with peace.

beakerkin said...

Justin

I will be leaving NYC to a place where my experience is unique. I
haven't decided what I should say if asked. DHS personel are in this battle just on a smaller level. Thus like the sailors they have a right to know.

The coward charge comes in concert
with other charges. I am told there were major secondary explosions and it just is not true.
I did not see or feel anything of the sort. This is the staple of the conspiracy phonies.

People have forgotten the 93 blast.
We remember it here but the readers of this blog are just not
typical.

Warren said...

Beak,
I was once called a hero because I pulled a guy out that was pinned underneath a collapsed crane while everyone else milled around in confusion.

The danger to me was real but minimal and I could hear him crying for help.

You have told me more than you have said here about what happened. Let me assure you; I would have outran you to get away from that expanding cloud of dust and rubble.

Always On Watch said...

Beak,
Until this blog, I've never even considered that those fleeing the "expanding cloud of dust and rubble" (Warren's phrase) to be cowards. They were NOT cowards! Accusing these victims of cowardice is egregious.

A coward is one who flees when taking a stand would make a difference--such was not the case for you in 1993 or in 2001.
Don't let someone lay that guilt- trip crap on you.
(Pardon my 60's lingo)

The cowards were/are those playing the dhimmi. As far as I'm concerned, the worst cowards today are the politically correct, especially those who rationalize islamism.

Russet Shadows said...

Well I guess I'm the most crazy guy on this forum, sans the trolls of course. I describe myself as "slightly to the left of Patrick Henry" and watch people run for cover. Of course, all the rhetoric in the world doesn't matter if you 1) can't persuade people or 2) don't have the power to make a difference yourself. Politics isn't all-or-nothing kind of thing. I'm all in favor of getting together with folks of all stripes to pursue common agendas...

beakerkin said...

Russet

You are not crazy but Radicals do not build anything. They rant.

bum from jersey said...

what you said i think can be applied to conservatives as well (except they don't hate bush). i think those w/ viewpoints at each end of the spectrum are out of touch w/ americans. indeed a conservative might be the president but i don't think thats neccasarily an argument that americans would prefer a conservative over a liberal. i just think they liked bush over kerry. why do conservatives dominate two branches of government you ask? well, i thinkt he conservatives have done a good job of creating a distinguished voice...each conservative has. though they agree 100% on certain core issues, i notice conservatives versus liberals have a unique perspective on issues that you would not expect them to have. so many americans i think voted for them because they felt they would represent their chunk of america properly, in other words they (being the conservatives) don't look at their constituents as just americans but americans from town 'x' who do have different opinions from people of town 'y.'