Saturday, June 25, 2005

Dishonoring 9-11

Regular readers know why I place a high priority on 9-11. I have been outraged by the behavior of the looney tune left. 3,000 people lost their lives at ground zero and they continually desecrate their memory with insane conspiracy theories. They desecrate the memory of the victims by blaming everyone but the perpetrators.

Now some idiots on the far left want to include anti american art in a museum at ground zero. When the families of victims are outraged the left ignores them. Or when they reduce the terrorist threat to a mere nusaince they tell people like myself to shut up.

Ground Zero is sacred soil and the left should have class. It would be nice if some of our antiwar liberals would get on board. If you want to display your anti American trash you are free to do so just not at Ground Zero.

Ground Zero should be reserved for the dead their families and be left as a solemn place for reflection.


beakerkin said...

Read about the latest Leftist Utopian attrocity in todays New York Post.

Esther said...

While I do NOT feel Ground Zero is a place for anti-American anything, I don't think it only belongs to the families of the dead but rather to the entire country who was attacked that day.

Ground Zero is, as you know, prime real estate. To not do anything with it lets them win. They've made us change. And we can't do that. I say build again. Maybe not exactly as it was, but show them they can't keep us down. And definitely have a memorial to those who were murdered there.

beakerkin said...

I agree with you about lower Manhattan. Lets keep the Anti American art out of the Memorial.

Robert Bayn said...

I didnt know people were not allowed to practice freedoms at tragedys? WTC is one of a few places that should be open to people expressing freedom of speech, as it was the attack on our freedoms.

The problem is'nt that protestors are at the WTC, the problem is, thier against a GOP lead Illegal war, so lets be honest and forward about this situation.

Robert Bayn said...

For the record ANTI WAR people are NOT ANTI AMERICAN!

Always On Watch said...

Yes, all America was attacked when the WTC was hit. I've visited there even though I don't live in NYC, and last year my husband and I made a special trip to WTC and to Shanksville. (The Pentagon is in my homestate, just less than 10 miles from me)

I agree that prime real estate in Lower Manhattan should not sit empty, but the proposed memorial is not a fitting one. Beak's words "Ground Zero is sacred soil" indicate that anything anti-American should never stand on the site. The families should lead the movement to prevent this type of memorial, and the rest of us should join in.

I was wondering when you'd weigh in on the WTC Memorial. Some of your previous posts explain with great pathos exactly WHY the proposed memorial is unacceptable--and it should be unaccepable to all Americans, not just to the families and to the conservatives.

Drew said...

Beaker, you just love spouting mindnumbing polemics. Look, I can find raving, pro-war, spittle dripping maniac within a few blocks of my place. Perhaps I should record his words and post them here as proof that the 'loony right' is in control of the reigns of the Republican party. .... Wait.... PAt Robertson, John Ashcroft, KArl Rove . . . they ARE!!

beakerkin said...

Always on the Watch

Excellent points as usual and all Americans should be outraged.


We disagree about the war and the Clintonian response of launching cruise missles is no longer valid 9-12.

There are decidedly Anti American groups in the Anti war movement. Code Pink and ANSWER are Communist front groups. The entire Bush lied troops died is anti American.

In every country there are sacred spots. You have a right to free speech everywhere else. Make your antiwar (not you personaly) statements away from a memorial. The question is class and this is the time for antiwar liberals to tell the Commies enough.

Robert Bayn said...

The entire Bush lied troops died is anti American.

Thats not anti-american, thats facts.

Drew said...

A complete aside regarding 9/11:

After leaving work an hour or so early, I was sitting in Philadelphia Grill, the rather plainly named and adorned bar in North Philly that day, drinking a Yards India Pale Ale, watching CNN or Fox, and wondering if my friends and other associates had managed to escape unharmed (yes in some cases, no in others).

Suddenly, Lawrence Eagleburger is on the TV screen, full of bluster and tough talk, and adverts for his work under Reagan and Bush. At some point he pauses to say, amidst his fightin' words, perhaps to illustrate just how angry he WAS: "And you know, New York, I've never been much of a fan myself. Hah, but you see . . . "

I looked at my friend George, who was cocking his eye at me and down the bar to see if this had registered with anyone, although most seemed to be staring at the screen, minds miles away wondering about loved ones.

Even amidst the tragedy, these conservative, perpetual propagandists may still find time to rage against the 'liberal/coastal elites.' No matter the circumstances, they instinctively jump on the opportunity to knock Hollywood liberals, the gayness of New York City, even when its so utterly wrong. Opportunists and irrational polemicists, all.

Warren said...

"And you know, New York, I've never been much of a fan myself. Hah, but you see . . . "

And from this we get:

"Even amidst the tragedy, these conservative, perpetual propagandists may still find time to rage against the 'liberal/coastal elites.' No matter the circumstances, they instinctively jump on the opportunity to knock Hollywood liberals, the gayness of New York City, even when its so utterly wrong. Opportunists and irrational polemicists, all."

Drew, you are doing a teriffic job! :^)

cricketgal said...

hi, interesting blog...

...i kind of agree with esther in that it was the whole country hit, and a great saddness for all of America. I dont think all these conspiricys are trying to shun away and forget what happened, but rather, try to depict a clearer image of the goings on of the American government and other such lies that the Superpower world leaders give to their people.

Take Care...i don't know much, these are just my thoughts..:)

Warren said...

This, "museum", has as much business at ground zero as a clown museum at Arlington National Cemetery.

Warren said...

Welcome, Cricketgal.

Would you place a swine farm next to a prophets tomb?

That is the way many of us see it.

There is a proper place for everything, this is not the proper place.

Justin said...

Bush lied Americans died is a rag worn piece of trash that is not truth. Can those of you that say it say Kerry Lied Troops Died. I can and its truth.

The trouble with this faction of the left wing is they are still pissed off because they lost a election fair and square by the law. Get over it the Electoral college elects Presidents and until it is changed that is the law.

If Bush lied, so did every Democrat who voted for the war based on the information at hand.
The UN Lied then, The French Lied then, The Germans Lied then.

Let me tell you something people if you dont think your assinine whining about Bush does not embolden the terrorist then you are sadly mistaken. I saw it in Viet Nam and once again I am seeing the same old democratic liberal whining begining to seep into the public and turn them against their own soldiers.

I wish you people would pull your heads out and see a plot to destory this country for what it is.

And Drew there are plenty of documents to back that one up.

Justin said...

Warren you are right this musem has no business anywhere in america. Ground zero is no place for the type of activisim that will take place.

You know if you people think these peoples form of government is so freakin great how come your not packing your bags and rushing to live under it.

If you people think this country is so bad why the hell do you think so many people from around the rule break the laws to get here. To escape the very kind of government you would have set up.

Robert Bayn said...

America : Where your freedoms are only allowed if republicans agree with them, then your just unpatrotic and hate america.


Sad idea of what freedom is all about!

Justin said...

Im sorry but the unpatriotic and hate America rehtoric doesnt cut it.

Dissent has its place and I for one do not agree that that place is ground zero. That is a place where thousands lost their lives due to a terrorist act.

Protest in Central Park, protest on 5th avenue, protest on Brodway but not on ground zero. That would be total violation to the memory of those who died there.

This has nothing to do with being a Republican which I am not but if you are going to shine the light of blame then you have to shine it on all those involved. Whether you like it or not the Democrats carry just as much blame for what is happening now as do the Republicans.

Am I to take it that if anyone dares to put the blame not just on one party but both parties who share in the problem then they are saying you are un American. Just be cause they disagree with this musuem thing is that a direct attack on the so called left. I think not. Why is it that if some one disagrees with or counters charges with those in dissent they are somehow labled Republican and calling you Un-Patriotic or Un-American.

What I do know is that continued attacks on the Government and the Military only serve one purpose and that is to embolden the enemy.
I have seen this in action first hand. Do you think they are stupid hell no they arent they know if they keep bringing in outside people and blowing up innocent men women and children and can break the will of the American public to wipe these vermin out then they will do just that to get stronger and louder protests.

The reason there are so many from other countries there is they want Iraq to fail because they know freedom if allowed ot live in Iraq will spread and they will no longer have control.

I was not for the Iraq war but we are there and we all need to get behind our men and wipe these vermin out or you can deal with them in your City and believe me that is not far off if they have their way.

I am not calling anyone Un-American or Un-Patriotic. Im just saying look before you leap and dont just look at one side of a issue. There are two sides to every coin.

Esther said...

I hope no one took my post as supporting this anti-American museum idea -- quite the opposite. I just meant we should build something since it's prime real estate. I don't know if it should be as tall or taller than the twins were or whatever. Just it shouldn't be left vacant as a tribute cause that's not a tribute but rather letting the terrorists win. Hope that's more clear.

beakerkin said...

Justin and Warren you are right as usual.

Cricket Gal this is a somewhat lively blog . Drew is our official troll as he is never whiny and always original.

Esther anyone who reads you for more then a paragraph knows what you meant.


These are the facts saying you disagree with the war is not un American. Blaming America first and excusing nihlism is. Bush lied troops died is unfactual and Anti American.

Drew keep up the good work. We even have better trolls then the other blogs booyah.

Robert Bayn said...

Justin Said:

What I do know is that continued attacks on the Government and the Military only serve one purpose and that is to embolden the enemy.

That is summed up as Conservative Rhetoric, Head in the sand, denying facts, so you can seem Patrotic.

Beak Said

These are the facts saying you disagree with the war is not un American. Blaming America first and excusing nihlism is. Bush lied troops died is unfactual and Anti American.

I totally Disagree, its Factual, your just in denial.

beakerkin said...


As I have stated earlier Bin Ladden was a fringe player. Beamish is 100% correct and anyone with any knowledge of the Afghan resistence will tell you as much. Shah Massoud was the key figure and I followed the resistence closely and am well versed in the facts.

Bush lied troops died is Commie agitprop. Every intelligence agency had the same estimate including the French.

How do you want to solve the terrorist problem. Slogans and Cruise missles have allready failed.

The person who is in denial is you.
There are no Commies in the peace movement. The Peace movement is Commie led and co-ordinated. You are serving their cause as a fellow traveler, albiet unwittingly.

You are also acting as a terrorist enabler by focusing attention on Bush rather then Nihilism. Terrorism is not a cultural variant like knishes.

Warren is correct Anti American art has zero place at Ground Zero.
Let them place it at NYU or the New School away from sacred soil.

Robert Bayn said...

So now i'm a communist and a terroist......LOL

Boy does the rhetoric ever end!

Robert Bayn said...

So let me gathier your points up so i can move on to something better.

Peace, is a communist thing, well then i guess i'am communist. I can live with that.

Bush and Military can do whatever they want and people can't say nothing because the terroist like that. Hmmmm, nice thought, but you see here in michigan, we still beleive in the bill of rights and freedom of speech, so until otherwise i will continue to say what i want, even if conservatives have thier head in the sand with the terroist and unpatrotic bull shit.

And Finally ground zero is not the place to have a demostration. Maybe it's not, ahh but you see this is still america, and people have that little thing called freedom, even if it interfere's with your beleifs.

One final thought on all this, beakster, i try often to give you same respect as i would want in return, calling me a communist unknowingly, or saying i enable terroist, frankly is a cheap shot, we may have diffrent opinions, but no need for cheap mud slinging to get your point across.

Warren said...

Robert, climb down off your cross.

If you want to be offended you will find offense in everything. Evidently you believe the sun rises and sets in your ass.

While you seek to find offense in everything to the right of Howard Dean, remember that a lot of us are offended by this propaganda museum that serves no useful purpose except to disseminate propaganda.

maybe they should hold KKK rallies on the grave of ML King. You do believe in freedom of speech, don't you? How about a chapter of the Muslim Brotherhood across the street from the Holocaust Museum, freedom of speech! Or do you only believe in freedom of speech when its speech you agree with?

It isn't about peace, its about propaganda and if you find Communists peaceful, crawl in bed with them. After all, they have seen to the peace of 100,000,000; the peace of death.

Robert Bayn said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
beakerkin said...


Read the comments again I did not call you a Communist. You are repeating their agitprop and are functioning in their terms as a useful idiot.

Read my comments again on terrorism. The obsessive anti - american focus of the peace movement is aiding and abeting nihlism.

Communists have zero interest in peace. They want to subvert Capitalism. If you do not believe me about 167 defending Communism ask Jason Papas.

Would you be this cavalier with Nazis or slavery. Nazis , Slavery and Communism are all equally evil.

You are free to diseminate your anti Bush BS and anti American propogana every where else. Ground Zero is sacred ground. Respect the dead, respect the families, respect
the witnesses (me and others) and those who watched on TV. You can go every place else in NYC .

Lets leave Ground Zero alone. Your
reluctance to see the sacredness of the site is a problem. America was attacked 3000 of us are dead and you are worried about using the site for agiprop.

Robert Bayn said...

Your point is taken beak, i will leave it at that.

Drew said...

maybe they should hold KKK rallies on the grave of ML King. You do believe in freedom of speech, don't you? How about a chapter of the Muslim Brotherhood across the street from the Holocaust Museum

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

What's all this "freedoms lost" bullshit? And what the hell is an "illegal war?"

What freedom have you lost?

Tell me, seriously. What is this freedom you stupidopian leftists think you've lost?

I've only lost one freedom since Sept. 11th, 2001. And you idiots probably would never guess what that freedom is.

I lost the freedom to view the New York City skyline from the 110th floor observation deck of the World Trade Center.

What freedom did you lose?

Justin said...

Rob said "Justin Said:

What I do know is that continued attacks on the Government and the Military only serve one purpose and that is to embolden the enemy.

"That is summed up as Conservative Rhetoric, Head in the sand, denying facts, so you can seem Patrotic."

That I made my friend is not Conservative rhetoric. That is absolute fact. If you dont believe me read the book by the top General in the North Vietnamese Army who said after Cambodia they were at the point to negotiate a peace with the US. However the protesters in the U.S. were the best thing to happen to us. It emboldened us to forgo the peace talks and continue the war.

I was there when a democratic congress cut all military spending for the war and when the U.S. soldiers were given a ration of ammo to use. I was there when a soldier under fire by the enemy had to request permission to return fire. I was there and held many of my brothers in my arms as they died because of the lies that were being spewed out to the american people by a media who was sympathetic to the Viet Cong ,the protesters and a weak kneed government who only saw political gain.

When you have served in a war and seen its horror. When you have been spit upon by your own countryman and called baby killer, when you have been forgotten by your own government. Then you maybe you will understand the facts as they are. If you dont think it cant and wont happen again then that is head in the sand denial and believe me people who treat their own military in this way do not deserve the freedoms that those people fought to give them.

Facts are facts and the enemy including the enemy we fight today know all to well the old adage of "Divide and Conqure".

Always On Watch said...

I was offline most of yesterday and came back this morning to find all these posts. What fun you guys have been having!

As Jason knows, I am particularly wary of our enemies' ability to exploit the divide-and-conquer strategy. Just visit the Al-Jazeera site @

Any memorial which even hints at the divide-and-conquer strategy should not be erected at any 9/11 site. If Americans cannot unite on this memorial isssue, we've got one helluva problem.

Those of you who were eye witnesses to the NYC attacks may not want to watch the following clip:

Drew said...

ANYWAY . . . look - we're not talking about anything except you conservatives want to sit around sucking each other off about how patriotic you all are.

George Bush initiated a war under false pretenses (and for the great 'Justin' if that IS his real name: managed to subsequently cut benefits for Veterans... not a good move when you want people to join the army). This is wrong. Don't draw a nation into war under pretenses you know are contrived. How hard is that?

beakerkin said...


Were 9-11 and WTC 93 contrived. Is Islamic teerorism just another cultural variant like Confession.

The time has come to end the defining of deviancy down. Or is your view it is okay so long as Jooooos are the intended target.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...


When did the United States go to war for a contrived reason, besides the obvious example of Kosovo?

Warren said...

Drew, you ingnorant slut.

You are devoid of common sense and gibber like a monkey, and those are your good points!

It helps me to think of you typing with the arm you managed to release from your straight jacket.

George Bush didn't initiate the war, he responded to a broken armistice. A fact that bone heads and syphilitic brained morons like to ignore.

I'd explain it all to you but I have more important things to do, like cleaning my finger nails.

Justin said...

Nice try Drew but I really think you need to either pull your head out of your ass or change the plexi-glass in your belly button so you can see the real world around you instead of that shit you digest daily.

Oh by the way dont forget to use that Great when refering to me that is one you got right. And ummm ya that be my real name Bucky.

Warren said...

Hey, Justin!

I think we are on to something. If I were you I'd use "The Great Justin" as a screen name, especially if it annoys the Drew monster.


The Great Justin said...


Hey Drew I meant to tell you that for only $29.99 I will be glad to send you not one but two prayer rugs you can bow down on when in my presence. The reason for two is you will have a clean one while the other one is in the cleaners.

Be nice and I might just let you kiss the stone that will take away all your sins and enlighten you to the truth.

Warren said...


Everyone should have a little enlightenment in their life!

Always On Watch said...

You have a great way with words, especially with those similes and metaphors. I'm not being sarcastic, either.

Warren said...

Always on watch,
Thank you, there is a madness to my method!

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