Friday, April 01, 2005

Revenge of the "wingnuts" take 2

I do want to thank the Recidivist on this part. The mania about the religious right is absurd. I have never understood it and still don't understand the obsession. Yet he posted a link. As a non Christian minority I do not feel threatened by the religious right. I have sat in all kinds of chuches and never once felt uncomfortable
or un welcome.

He posted a blurb and I will go line by line. It is from conservativepetitions.com

1 Protest a rouge judges pornography ruling. Most conservatives do not have a problem with pornography so long as Children are not the participants or viewers.In the age of the internet access is too easy. I am not a fan of censorship but keeping
minors away from porn is a good idea.
Score 1 for the Wingnuts
2The teaching of the Declaration's religious roots.
What is wrong with that? However I am open to a persuasive argument on that one.
Score 2 for the Wingnuts
3 Demand that Jeb Bush spare Terri Schiavos life
Score 3 For the Wingnuts . My dissent is based on the outmoded notion that a spouse is the sole arbiter of these choices. We do not live in the world of Ozzie & Harriet.
The presumption that a spouse will act in the best intrests is outmoded. I would say the same if the roles were reversed. A biological family should have some say in this matter.
4 Cry out for the ejection of homosexual videos for health reasons
Score one for the left. Presuming minors are not involved this seems absurd. The context is the question sex ed for older teens . Public saftey trumps puritanism , but I would hope that the videos are done tasteful manner.
5That Homosexuals can change if they want to.
Score two for the left. Who cares if somebody is gay ? The notion of a biology or choice is irrelevant. Who cares as long as consenting adults are involved ?
6 Boycott Abercrombie & Fitch. I am not a fan of boycotts but the left has its own such as those caried out against Celestial Seasonings & Rush Limbaugh advertisers. If you don't like the image don't buy the product. I am not a fan of Sean Penn so I do not see his films this is my right. Boycotting advertisers is far worse than boycotting the actual perpetrators Sean Penn, Michael Moore etc.
Score three for the left.
7 Demand that Christian and Jews be defended against Islamic indoctrination.
This is two parts as several schools have Islamic sensitivity training that crosses the line of tollerance. There are schools that have students pretend they are muslim for a day. We do not do this for any other relgion.
The persecution of religious minorities in Islamic Socities is a serious issue. The Recidivist does not adress this topic at all. When I tried to discuss it he called me a bigot. This must make Freedom House bigoted as well. Nor is the problem limited to Jews and Christians as Buddhists,Hindus,Zoroastrians,Sikh,Yezidis and animists have similar problems. That list is not comprehensive and I may have missed a few.
Score this for the Wingnuts
Score Left 3 Wingnuts 4
8 Opposose the mnadate that allows Homosexual Mentors
Everyone should have a mentor and mentor others. Gays should not be included
Score this one for the left
Tie Ball game.
9 Oppose UN radical Homosexual agenda.
There are plenty of reasons to oppose the UN but this is not one of them.
Score
Left 5 wingnuts 4
10 Brand Michael Moore a traitor.
I really wish we could but as I did not see the film I would have to abstain. Being a fan of free speech I have to give this to the left. I can be persuaded here as well
but the score is
Left 6 Wingnuts 4

I posted the following

These are not mainstream GOP views . It is like claiming Michael Moore or Noam Chomsky speak for the Democratic Party.

You are taking the most strident voices and tring to pass it as mainstream. Although I am tempted by the Michael Moore traitor bit.

In a way you are guilty of doing the same thing you accuse Horrowitz of . The irony may be lost on you as humor does not seem to be your strong suit. Let it sink in and you might enjoy a laugh later.

Thanks for the responseand believe it or not I appreciate it.

The Recidivist was a good sport for the most part. He takes this way too seriously at times . If he would knock off the invectives this would make great reading. A good disagreement makes for a lively board.

Here is his response in fairness. The petition was not his but a response to my query
with regard to his 9-11 Sharia quip.

On the issue of the website,when you say that I am taking the most strident voices and trying to pass it as mainstream....would you perhaps care to show me where I have spoken about anything other than the people on the website ? Where have I used anything other than their own words and where have I tried to pass them off as anything other than simply scary ?

Yes go back and check , and you dearest one, and you will find that I haven't tried
to pass them off as mainstream at all ... I haven't even tried to compare them to you.

(This is my comentary." The original post was a ham handed satire. If I were in the Recivists Shoes I readily admit where this would be scary. Some of those issues are more complex "ConservativePettions.com harnesses Internet technology to help conservative Americans,like you(not me YOU)let those in charge know how you think."
If the Recidivist claims this is satire there is some basis for his claims. Not all those issues are black and white. I will give him credit on this one as it was an over reaction on my part to the Sharia quip. For this I appologize but the 9-11 sharia bit was over the top.)

Where have I held Michael Moore up as paragons of virtue and speakers of great truth?I view both of them as circus acts who speak occaisional truths,but who are generally best ignored and viewed as poor entertainment. In Michael Moore's case I consider him amoral.

(My reference was to Moore as extreemists not as reflective of the Recidivist. If there was confusion I regret it . I am glad we agree on something and yes a broken clock is correct twice a day. Chomsky is being taught on college campuses and that is a major point of Horrowitz's contention nor is Chomsky alone.)

As for me being guilty of what I accuse Horowitz of..at least I accuse on the basis of what he has said or put in writing....you just accuse on the basis of what you WANT me to have said-because in addopting your manner of misrepresentation, you are guilty of the same as David Horowitz (not only as well)

As for my sense of humor - given the fragility of your other claims today (and as ever) you will I am sure understand if I chose to take your comment with a pinch of salt that it deserves.

Now next time don't try so hard and you may find that you do not end up looking like a clown.

Unlike the Recidivist I will conceede a point. If I were a gay man these people would concern me. As a site that caters to a gay readership those people are ripe for lampooning. I may have over reacted on the heels of "All aboard , this is the 9:11 to Sharia Law ". Remember I am a WTC93 survivor and an eyewitness to 9-11. That remark was certainly uncalled for and unwise. I will apologize for my post here as a gentleman but the Recidivist should also withdraw the above post as sophomoric poetic license.

The annalysis of these issues listed show that some have merrit if looked at more closely. Most of those issues should be examined in greater depth. Everyone is entitled to dignity and respect but there are larger issues. Your right to respect should not mean denigration of others . That last point was not adressed to the Recidivist but a general rule.

The comments about organized religion in the comments section deserve a full post.We
would have to explore history , the nature of man, Sociology and a range of other
areas. I do note that the Recidivist was polite and respectful to the man not his position. It appears that sometimes he forgets that others do not share his opinion.
The Pope is an inpiratiration to millions and not all of them Catholic. I do not share his views on the Pope or organized religion as I am a fan of both.

9 comments:

viper85 said...

Just as predicted, you get annihilated with one set of allegations so you move on to a new discussion and make a completely new set of illiterate and unfounded allegations which are clearly written in a rage. You really are Duffus Dumbass.

viper85 said...

If you actually go to ConservativePetitions.com you will see why he doesn’t need to claim that any of his post is satire. In THEIR OWN WORDS:

Are you outraged by what liberals are doing to America? Had enough and want to make a difference? Then this really resource is for you.

ConservativePetitions.com harnesses Internet technology to help conservative Americans, like us let those in charge know what you think. Not only is it full of news and information about crucial issues, this site enables us to take action through petitions that voice our concerns to the people who need to hear it -- all in one convenient location.


All that the Sharia Law comment does is point out the very fine line between the nature of right-wing Christian fundamentalism and the Muslim fundamentalism. Both are equally intolerant. Right-wing American fundamentalists drive gays out of communities, make their lives a living hell and in many cases even lynch and murder them and then celebrate those deaths very vocally and publicly. Everything which you say he should fear about Muslims and Palestinians. If you don’t belive that, then please pay a visit to www.godhatesfags.com and prepare to feel sick to your core.

You will no doubt tell us that this is only representative of a minority of these Christian extremists - but equlatt the sweeping comments that you make about Muslims and Palestinians only apply to the minority.

9-11 was an example of the Muslim Fundamentalism which he so abhors, yet there are many people here in our own country who fear that we are getting ever closer to the point where we will follow the same road under a different name.

Why, instead of making assumptions and jumping to conclusions, don’t you actually check your understanding before you go on the offensive?

It is clear that it is you who does not tolerate differing views. This entire blog is a living testament to your blindness and ignorance to reality.

beakerkin said...

Viper

Wrong again but being a gentleman I
did conceede an over reaction to a
stupid quote on a previous post.
His sarcastic opening to the post was intended as satire and a poor one.

There is zero connection in the remotest sense between Christian
fundamentalists and radical Islam.
Christians do not endorse a Jim Crow culture called Dhiminitude.
Christians do not in the modern age convert people by the sword.
Nor do mainline Christians call for
killing gays. This does happen in the muslim world a fact he ignores.

The comparison or treatment of gays in the USA to Islamic countries is slander and antiamerican. There is zero connection between the USA and Muslim nations that imprison and
execute gays.

I stand by my assertions . The 9:11
Sharia law quip was bigoted and offensive to Ameicans and Christians.

viper85 said...

Well I stand by my view that you are a racist, a bigot, intollearant of any view other than your own and that you seek to silence people who do not agree with you.

You are sick.

Warren said...

Viper said:
"Well I stand by my view that you are a racist, a bigot, intollearant of any view other than your own and that you seek to silence people who do not agree with you.

You are sick.


Look up the word delusional then read up on Jungian psychology, especially the parts about projection.

You might find it enlightening.

ps: You might consider using a dictionary. Especially if you are in the habit of criticizing someone else about their spelling errors.

beakerkin said...

Viper 85

Who am I racist against there is no
Palestinian race or ethnicity ? Palestinians are Arabs and if you
do not believe me read the PLO charter.

There is zero evidence of bigotry in my posts or comments. I have defended Israel by using Islamic History and Sociology. Did you expect me to quote Woody Woodpecker ? How do you expect a defense of Israel without a similar
discussion of Islamic and Arab history.

The fact that none of you have noticed the model for my argument is Howard Zinn. Therefore when you
call me a bigot you must call Zinn
whose model I use a bigot.

If Israel's history is fair game
1300 years of Colonialism, Ethnocide and sometimes Genocide.
The bigot charge is bigoted itself
as you are intellectualy failing to
hold Islam to standards apllied to every other culture. The other explanation is you do not have the
facts. The Recidivist spoke of folklore and conjecture in his presentation . I use history, sociology and the PLO charter. Is the PLO charter a zionist propoganda as well. There are no
Palestinians just Arab invaders on
a range of lands belonging to other people.

viper85 said...

Warren: One day you will actually do something other than snipe. When that day comes, someone may pay attention to you.

Beakerkin: Racist, bigot, hypocrite, liar and spreader of propaganda.

You can deny it all you like, but that does not change the fact that you are all of the above.

The fact that you don't even have the balls to admit it also makes you a coward.

beakerkin said...

Viper

The most comedic thing you have done is complain about Warren sniping. You have done nothing else on this blog. You have presented no opinions or facts. I am still waiting for why you think
David Horowitz is evil.

A coward is the last thing that describes me as I run an open blog
where you were never censored. You can come down here any time and let it fly.

You have called me a racist and bigot based upon what. My claim that there is no such thing as a Palestinian. Read the PLO charter it has numerous references to Palestinian Arabs and Arab unity.
If the Palestinians are Arab they allready have plenty of states.

There is no Arab, Palestinian or Muslim race so that charge makes you look absurd.

The charge of bigotry and propoganda is laughable. Anybody who disseminates information can be called a propogandist. Did you expect me to use Lord of the Rings
or Bugs Bunny Cartoons to state my case. The fact is you and the Recidivist can not refute the assertions therefore you resort to labels. You have yet to present your case or find a factual error
in my posts.

I stand by my point that the Recidivist has a problem with Jews
and America. The 9-11 Sharia quips and a blog full of Bush bashing is ample enough. The man has a boatload of hangups note his reaction when I mistook him for a Brit. I have been
mistaken at times for Assyrian, Copt, Cuban, Guyanese , Italian, Polish, Russian and always responded with thank you but I am still a European Jew or Ashkenaz.

Focusing undue attention on the worlds only Jewish state is bigoted.I am still waiting for his
first word on Copts or Assyrians.

Hypocrite because I do not put my Email adress on the line. Yes you and all your little buddies have to come here and make your case in public. The fact is none have attempted because there is no case.

Warren said...

Viper said:
"Warren: One day you will actually do something other than snipe. When that day comes, someone may pay attention to you."

[sarcasm]Gee, I'm so sorry![/sarcasm]
Actually, you give me very little to work with so I only reply in kind.

I have put up refutation/deconstructions of posts by recidivist and craigy, but you haven't responded to them, nor have they, in any meaningful way.

My time is somewhat limited and I cannot answer long posts with single sentences. I can, however, readily put down any little troll that results to mere insults and hit home with amazing frequency.

If you get the chance you might want to read the next reply I put up in "Revenge of the "wingnuts".

Please do "pay attention". And we will see if any of you can do anything besides "snipe" and name call.

You see, for someone to actually respond in a meaningful manner, they must actually read what you post. I find that the self-deluded run from my posts like a vampire from sunlight.