Monday, April 04, 2005

More Folklore , Spin from The Recidivist

For a person who doesn't read my blog I get covered there more than I do in my own blog. When one runs a facts free presentation sunlight and truth are dangerous. He has closed his blog to my comment and that of others who have challenged his spin and outright BS. His ususal response is to call me a troll, old, pathetic, bigot,racist . Rather than deal with genuine facts he cowardly closes his forum . The people that suffer are his readers and who are not being presented facts. They are being fed opinion, spin and at times bigotry.

Starting with Little Known Myth busting truths #3

No sources are listed in the entire post. This is a mix of folklore, spin and soft shoe tap dancing.In fact the only source he lists on series of posts is an obscure
extreeme left radical professor that will be dealt with later. This is one more source than he typically provides . All opinion , zero sources or facts and much crying about victim hood.

One can read the Truth about the Arab invasions in a variety of places. Lets Start with the Book Indigenous People under Islam by Fred P Isaac. Isaac is an Assyrian and details the invasions and brutal supression by a Jim Crow Dhimmi system. Http://www.secularislam.org/jihad / subjects.htm. One sees that the Arabs invaded Colonized ,Ethnocide and sometimes Genocide. The victims were not only Jews & Christians but included Hindus, Zoroastrians and Buddhists. There were a range of smaller people mistreated as well . Once can find a range of Articles on these subjects at Front Page magazine by Serge Trifkovic.

Jews, Christians and other minorities were never considered Arab. They lived under a series of Dhimmi Laws that were worse than Jim Crow. Read the post called do not be a Dhimmi in this blog.

Iraqi's are Arabs with the following exceptions, Kurds, Assyrians and Turkomen all of whom have a better case for nationhood than Palestinians. All of whom have their own distinct languages and the Assyrians a religion as well. They all exist for thousands of years with clear identity. The idigenous people of Egypt are Coptswho have an 8,000 year history and suffer persecution today under brutal Arab rule. Go to AMCOPIC.com for the truth. The Recidivist next word on the Coptics will be his first. Ignorance or convenient bigotry on the part of the Recidivist is anyones guess. Iranians are 51% Persian and Practice a different form of Islam but are even
more brutal towards minorities. Visit a Bha'i temple near you and ask but they are safe in Israel. Other persecuted minorities are Zoroastrians, Jews and Christians.

His assertations about the genetics of European Jews are refuted by science . Thus he provides zero sources for his folklore. Http://khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html

Askenazim ( European Jews) ,Sephardim, Mizrahim, Jururim,Italquim are Israelite. The Israelite halotype fall into groups J & E. There have been smaller bloodmixtures along the way. Lybian Jews are descended from Berbers ( read Fred Isaac)Ethiopian Jews ( mostly eithiopian). Palestinian Arabs probably partialy Isrealite. The reason for this is inverse as sexual slavery and forced conversions were common. This does not give the Palestinians any validity. The notion of a pure race is BS as armies went all over the place. The fact remains that Jews are indigenous and Palestinian Arabs are not. The studies that Jews are more closely related to Anatolians, Assyrians, Kurds point to the harassment doccumented by Isaac, Bat Yeor and Others.
Http://globalpolitician Palestinian genes show Arab , Jewish , European and Black African Ansectry. The Crusaders were is the area and sexual slavery was a part of Islamic History . Sword of the Prophet Trifkovic. Serialized at Front Page Magazine.

The Recidivist is disingenuous with the facts abouth the PLO charter. The references
to Arab unity are not calls for linguistic unity.
Http://www.pna.gov.ps/government/gov/plo_Charter.asp
Article13 Arab unity and the liberation of Palestine are two complimentary objectives........ The Palestinians define themselves as Arabs in their own words.Nor is that a linguistic reference where is the cultural identity or religion. The religion is the same as Arabs Islam and the identity is 1964. All the states in the area are a creation of Sykes Picot. Jordan was created and expelled Jews who had lived there long before there was Islam. Palestine and Jordan were one country until
until the division in 1923. Allready in control of the majority of the land the Arabs
wanted all of it. 70% of the population of Jordan call themselves Palestinians.

In short the indigenous people were Jews and Christians. Arabs arrive in the seventh
century and opress idigenous people. The indigenous people are subject to Jim Crow laws and a few convert or intermarry. This is not a basis for ethnicity for a people
the Palestinians fail on a variety of levels linguistic , religious and an identity
starting in Egypt 1964. Compare this to Jews, Copts and Assyrians and there is zero case for nationhood.

There is zero connection between Biblical Philistines and "Palestinians". We debunked the genetic claims of the Recidivist.
Zero sources in his post several in mine.

Little Known Myth Busting Truths 2
Zero sources all opinion .

Every Poll ever taken stated the Jewish people overwhelmingly support the state of Israel. Jewish critics of Israel fall into two categories extreeme leftist radical , odd religious groups Satmar & Neturai Karta . Leftists radicals regardless of religion are seditious read the Venona Cables by Briendel.Their only aliegance is to whatever the party tells them. The Rosenburgs orphaned their children for the cause. This typifies the mentality of the extreeme left.

My charges of bigotry against the Recidivist will be adressed here. Professor Irwin Colter Identifies nine sets of behaviors that constitute the new antisemitism.

Political Anti Semitism
The deligitimization of the state of Israel. Recidivist guilty
Ideological Antisemitism
Zionism=Racism . Zionism = Aparthied Zionism= Nazism. Recidivist guilty on first two
Cultural Antisemitism The melange of attitudes, sentiments, and discourse of "fashionable" salon intellectuals. Recidivist guilty due to his arrogant self righteous tones. Only real intellectuals use facts and sorces.
Denial of Israel of equality before the law in the international arena. The singling out of Israel for differential and discriminatory treatment in the international arena. He has dedicated a disproportionate time on Israel and has said zero about a range of totalitarian and communist government Human rights abuses. He focuses of Israel a country with an excellent rating at Freedom House and says zero about countries with large scale human rights abuses China, Cuba , Zimbabwe all have never
been mentioned in his blog. He is a pathological bigot on and the case is clear. He has also made other bigoted quips on other subjects as well.

Little Known Myth Busting Number 1
No sources . Muslims have a series of ethnically cleansed states allready google demographics and look it up. The PA wants a Jeuden Frei West Bank. As Arabs colonialists they have zero legal standing. Jews were clearly there before the Arabs
who already have a Palestinian State Called Jordan.

We already provided sources that there clearly are genetic ties to a jewish people.
Islam is the ofical religion of the PA. Christians are being harassed by the Muslims and fleeing to Israel where they suffer no discrimination Http://www.falange.us/xtian-225.html I could easily cite dozens of more reports.
Arabs are not indigenous Jews and some Christians are.

On Zionist Racism and Trolls the recap.

No sources repeated poorly written charges. Claims 20 points lists 15 and gives the
variation of the same points several times. Several flagrant spelling errors but he calls other people illiterate.

1 A state whose express purpose is to serve and promote a specific ethnicity is by its definition Racist.
There are Jews in every racial category this makes this claim absurd. Poland, Lithuania, Germany and Russia all have laws similar to the right of return based upon
ethnicity. The only reason he points Israel out is he is a bigot.
2 Zioninism today is nothing more than a defence ( defense from a person who calls me illiterate )and expansion of a Jewish state for Jews- on its own term- no matter what cost to others. (He complains about my style of writing whoa)
Every other state in the region including the PA has an official religion Islam. The
fact that he alone points to Israel is bigotry again.Jews, Muslims, Christians , Druze ( they also call themselves Arab another mistake) and Baha'i worship freely in Israel.
3 Lengthy whining about UN resolutions and merciless punishment of Palestinians. Israel shows remarkable restraint Russia in Chechnya , USA in Falujah, Syria in Hamma
and Jordan in Black September have all dealt with similar situations mor harsly.
4 Poorly alluded claim that Israel expelled the Palestinians and another false claim
the the Palestinians are descended from the Phillistines.
Dershowiz Pg81 Benny ' there was no zionist policy to expell or intimidate them into flight". In any war civilians flee the fighting. 84 Morris " Arab commanders ordered villagers to evacuate" " Arab League peiodically endorsed such a move"

Dersowitz 84 Prime Minister of Syria Khalid al Azam " Since 1948 ...while it is we who made them leave... We brought disaster upon..Arab ( Note on ethnicity) refugees, by inviting them and putting pressure on them to leave. ...We rendered them dispossed. We exploited them.... all in this service of political purpose..
there is alsozero mention of the expulsion of Jews from Arab countris Http://www.meforum.org/pf.php?id=263. This was real ethnic cleansing by Arabs against Jews.The Recidivist is silent

5 Another poorly worded accusation of the founding fathers of ethnically cleansing.
Read above . The land was purchased from absentee landlords living in Beirut or Damascus. David ben Gurion "encouraged Israelis not to buy land from people who worked on it" Pg 25

6 Yada Yada Repetitive claim about the historical ties of " Palestinians " and their
tie tohistorical capital Jerusalem. Blaming Israel for the refugees siting in camps.

Jerusalem was never a capital except under Jewish rule. The province was governed mostly from Damascus and the residents percieved themselves as southern Syrians. Jerusalem is naver mentioned in the Koran and the Dome of the Rock was constucted on the holiest site in Islam due to an internal fued ( Joseph Farah). As early as 1920 Jews were the overwhelming majority there acording to the census. It was so important to Muslims that almost none resided there.
The repeatative claim that Isreal is responsible for the refugees is refuted in 4

7 Because it fails to admit that the minority indigenous Jewish Community in Palestine, that lived therefor the last 2000 years was an in indistinguishable people
from its Christian and Muslim bretheren. ( Run on sentence starting with because and this clown calls me illiterate)
The Jews have a distinct language , religion and historical identity. Muslims were Arabs who mistreated indigenous people Fred Isaac. They were not the same people and often prevented from returning to their anscestral lands by Islamic authorities. Jews and Christians were the indigenous people. The Arab muslims were not and invaded in the seventh century.

8 Incoherent whining about bigotry.

9 Repeated charge Israel is racially exclusive. Elsewhere he claims Jews do not contitute a race. More illucid ramblings from the Recidivist.

Jews have every racial and ethnic mix in their population so a racialy exclusive state is a farce. The statement was produced by an illiterate

He claims with zeroevidence the Palestinians have been there for 4000 years. Arabs invaded in the Seventh Century. There is zero connection between the Phillistines, Canaanites and Palestinians.

10 A poorly structured claim of revising history and racial superiority.
Jews are an ethnic group with genetic ties sourced earlier. Jews are from every race and Arabs have 22 countries to practice their culture , Jews have one.
Historical revisionism is comedic based upon a person that denies the Arab invasions,
uses zero evidence to tie Palestinians to Phillistines and Canaanites. Revisionist is someone unable to read the PLO charter with "Arab Unity" & "Palestinian Arab" and
claiming that Palestinians are not Arab.

11 More singling out Israel for unique critique.
The Copts and Assyrians live in countries with less Harmony. Unlike the Palestinians
they have been around for 4000 years and are clearly indigenous. The Russians are receptive to Chechen Identity, African Nations routinely have coutries with tribal friction. The Tibetians also live in a society that respects them. Yet the Jewish state is the only one pointed out. According to Freedom House it is at the top of the rankings.
We have done race and ethnic cleansing already .

12 It propogates itself as a democratic government yada yada that denies the rights
of minorities.

Israeli Arabs vote and have more freedoms in Israel than elsewhere go to Freedom House. Compare Israels freedoms to Turkey and Israel is rated freer.

13 Bad math. There is a Jewish majority in Israel.

14 Bizzare claim that Israel did not reclaim the desert.

They did and drained swamps and made numerous improvements to the land. This is comedic material.

15 Because it divides the world into those who are worth more and lessinto superior beings.

No all citizens vote in Israel regardless of race or religion. His system of superior beings does take place in communist countries . Party members are privaleged citizens. It occurs in Islamic countries where religious and ethnic minorities are discriminated against. Arabs have 22 home lands to choose from.

He claims there is no single Jewish ethnic identity and claims Palestinans are the
same people who simply chose the Islamic faith. Really ,genetic ties were established at the top and we provided a souce.Jews also have a religion, historical identity of over 5000 years and a language that is unique. Nobody chose Islam we provided articles and sources something the Recidivist asks for but never does.

He has used zero sources so far.

Zionism is the right to self determination of the Jewish people. Thus any word play
is a directly bigoted ruse. What other ethnic groups do not have the right to self
determination ? He applies one standard for Jews and none for anyone else.

8 comments:

Recidivist said...

It is comical that you are actually arguing about all sorts of things that Recidivist has never even claimed. By doing this you are trying to discredit him by claiming that he has said what he has never said.

There can be no clearer example of misrepresentation and propaganda, so the only one who discredits himself is you.

beakerkin said...

Now you are writing in second person. Please take some medication and look hard for a nice shrink.

Zero sources so far.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

beakerkin said...

Another thing it would be nice if you would point them out. It would
be better yet if you ran an open
forum.

Recidivist said...

Another e-mailed link to the farcical Beakerkin's blog now it gets really comical as my pet troll desperately tries to do a convincing job of arguing genetics- and in the process totally exposes himself as the blustering troll that we always suspected.

Something I learned a long time ago was that when you debate with a troll, he will argue anything you say that doesn’t reflect well on his argument, even if he isn’t informed enough to understand what he argues. To catch this, you therefore introduce a factual inaccuracy to see if his responses repeat this - if they do then he is almost certainly blustering.

In Beakerkin’s case, his one source for his counter argument is a broken link ... kind of suspect and predictable, but it provides us with one tick in the trolling column

When I first introduced the findings of genetic studies that showed that most non-European Jews have no connection at all with the historical holy lands I deliberately started referring to ‘haplotypes’ as ‘halotypes’ - there is no such thing as a ‘halotype’

hapq·loq·type (hpl-tp) n.


The set of alleles that determine different antigens but are closely linked on one chromosome and inherited as a unit, providing a distinctive genetic pattern used in histocompatibility testing.
The antigenic phenotype determined by closely linked genes inherited as a unit from one parent.

Weeks later our fictional ‘halotype' friends suddenly pop up in Beakerkin’s cocktail of genetic impossibility.

Now had our troll actually understood his subject, he would almost certainly be referring to haplotypes. Two ticks in the trolling column.

The unique feature about the haplotypes markers used by scientists in the particular study that I outlined to determine the ancestry is that they only change noticeably through evolution (we are talking hundreds of thousands of years). If you mix bloodlines, they don’t mutate and adopt some of the characteristics of each bloodline .. they INVARIABLE and infallibly gets passed on unaltered from the female parent ... and it is the female inheritance that is all important the Jewish faith.

Beakerkin argues (supported by this dubious broken link reference) that sexual slavery and blood mixing will have caused the genetic markers of Jews to have been ‘diluted’ - but unless he is suggesting that it was the men who were sold in to sexual slavery, he is arguing a genetic impossibility. Three ticks in the in the trolling column.

Finally, look closely at what he says and rather than countering my argument (which he has clearly misunderstood) he is actually supporting it. Most European Jews are indeed not descended from the Israelites at all .. they are descended from converts in what is now Turkey and the Balkan states (hence the wide variation in their genetic markers).

The simple truth (which is what science argues) is that the only connection that most non-Middle Eastern migrant Jews have to the Middle East is that their ancestors adopted a religion (only 3% of the non-Middle Eastern Jews have the Jewish genetic markers .. this rises to 70% for Middle Eastern Jews) .. whereas almost all Palestinians (82%) have virtually identical markers to those of the Israelites, showing that they have the same unbroken heritage in the region that the Jews claim for themselves.

A fourth indicator of the trolling tendency is that the only research that references two ‘Israelite’ haplotypes is research done to try (unsuccessfully) to prove a ridiculous Mormon claim that North American Indians were descended from Israelites ... the interesting fact is that the ‘E’ haplotypes which Beakerkin claims as one of these ‘Israelite’ markers is virtually non-existent in Jewish and Middle Eastern populations.

The fifth indicator or trolling is that all credible research references only one ‘Jewish’ (not Israelite) haplotype .. the other commonly occurring haplotypes are ‘G’ (not ‘E’ as claimed by Beakerkin).


Primary references:

M. F. Hammer, A. J. Redd, et al. (2000) Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes . Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, Vol. 97, Issue 12, 6769-6774, June 6, 2000
DNA and the origins of the Jewish ethnic groups. Hammer MF, Linacre JM. ………… 16:1 p.862-3

Figure #1 Figure #2

Secondary references:

Brinkmann, C., et al. "Human Y-chromosomal STR haplotypes in a Kurdish population sample." International Journal of Legal Medicine 112 (1999): 181-183.

Brook, Kevin A. The Jews of Khazaria. Northvale, NJ: Jason Aronson, 1999.

Hammer, Michael F., et al. "Y Chromosomes of Jewish Priests." Nature 385 (January 2, 1997): 32. Oppenheim, Ariella, et al. "High-resolution Y chromosome haplotypes of Israeli and Palestinian Arabs reveal geographic substructure and substantial overlap with haplotypes of Jews." Human Genetics 107(6) (December 2000): 630-641.

Oppenheim, Ariella, et al. "The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East." The American Journal of Human Genetics 69:5 (November 2001): 1095-1112.

Rubin, Michael. "The Other Iraq." Jerusalem Report (December 31, 2001). Siegel, Judy. "Genetic evidence links Jews to their ancient tribe." Jerusalem Post (November 20, 2001).

Thomas, Mark G., et al. "Y Chromosomes Traveling South: the Cohen Modal Haplotype and the Origins of the Lemba -- the 'Black Jews of Southern Africa'." American Journal of Human Genetics 66:2 (February 2000): 674-686.

Traubman, Tamara. "Study finds close genetic connection between Jews, Kurds." Ha'aretz (November 21, 2001). Travis, J. "The Priests' Chromosome? DNA analysis supports the biblical story of the Jewish priesthood." Science News 154:14 (October 3, 1998): 218.

Zoossmann-Diskin, Avshalom. "Are today's Jewish priests descended from the old ones?" HOMO: Journal of Comparative Human Biology 51:2-3 (2000): 156-162.

Beakerkin's frind, Warren, puts on a braver attempt at discrediting this, but ineptly tries to argue his case by mistakenly of referencing techniques not used in this study - and again using the largely totally discredited Mormon research done to show that North American Indians are descended from the ancient Israelites) and excuses made by the Mormon's as to why it was 'problematic' trying to establish the link with scientific methods (it was problematic because the entire therory was a joke).

Now that Beakerkin has so thoroughly busted their flush as the complete and utter trolling irrelevance that he is (the rest of his post largely argues against what he wants me to have said, rather than what I have ever actually said, and is woefully short of any relevant - let alone credible - sources) normal service can be resumed on this blog .. probably later in the week, because work will keep me away from home for much of this week.

beakerkin said...

The reasearch stands from from the source. Jews are related to each other and the findings are as represented . Unlike you I post my
sources so whatever I do post is more you.
http://khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html

Destroys your moronic assertion that Jews and "Palestinians " are the same people. Jews are clearly related to the Israelites. As Islam
as doccumented in earlier posts used coercive measures a few Jews were converted. Thus the relationship is inverse.

Still I provide sources something you do not do in your fact free bigoted blog. For someone that doesn't read my blog you spend alot of time here.

Personal word you can post on the Chemist. I will not attack you personally in a neutal forum. This
is something you did twice. Stick to your points if possible there and respect his forum.

Warren said...

Recidivist, you are just simply full of crap!

Either you are distorting what you read or you are unable to grasp what you have read. I imagine its some of both.

recidivist claimed:
"The unique feature about the haplotypes markers used by scientists in the particular study that I outlined to determine the ancestry is that they only change noticeably through evolution (we are talking hundreds of thousands of years). If you mix bloodlines, they don’t mutate and adopt some of the characteristics of each bloodline .. they INVARIABLE and infallibly gets passed on unaltered from the female parent ... and it is the female inheritance that is all important the Jewish faith.

And:
Beakerkin's frind, Warren, puts on a braver attempt at discrediting this, but ineptly tries to argue his case by mistakenly of referencing techniques not used in this study - and again using the largely totally discredited Mormon research done to show that North American Indians are descended from the ancient Israelites) and excuses made by the Mormon's as to why it was 'problematic' trying to establish the link with scientific methods (it was problematic because the entire therory was a joke).

From the study you cited,(main reference), "Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes"! I said haplotype percentages because, that is the mathematical method used to determine a scoring on the graphs. You see, I actually read the study where you, apparently did not. You seem to have just skimmed it and gleaned out the parts, 'you thought', made your twisted view workable.

"Genome Research"
Vol. 7, No. 10, pp. 996-1005, October 1997
"Y chromosome haplotypes are particularly useful in deciphering human evolutionary history because they accentuate the effects of drift, migration, and range expansion."

You are also intentionally mixing up mitochondrial DNA and Y marker DNA which is far less stable.

Biallelics are simply pair mutations of haplotypes.

Y markers are uniquely male and only passed from father to son in a straight line in a similar fashion to the way that mitochondrial DNA is passed from mother to daughter. Any imposition of an 'outside' Y donor, (male), will forever exhibit the haplotype markers of that outsider along straight, male lines.

In other words, for the terminally dim witted, females do not possess Y marker chromosomes nor the haplotype markers within, nor do they pass them on to males, (or females). They do, however, posses mitochondrial DNA, which was not used in the study you cited. Although male cells contain mitochondrial DNA, it is the donation of the mother and not passed onward to offspring. As a matter of fact, mitochondrial DNA, is not present in the cell nucleius where the Y cromosome is found.

Although the Mormon study was flawed if not silly, the information gathered from it was not. I really liked that "largely" qualifier you added! LOL

I also seriously doubt that you intentionally mispelled haplotype.

Your posts contain many mispellings and typos such as, "frind and therory", in the paragraph where you addressed me.

You should at least have a minimal knowledge of genetics before you try to bullshit someone!

LMAO

Warren said...

recidivist said:
"normal service can be resumed on this blog .. probably later in the week, because work will keep me away from home for much of this week."

Plan a take over?

beakerkin said...

Something is odd and I can not put my finger on it. It seems like he has lost his bluster. It almost seemed like someone else borrowed
the name.

Where was the self absorbed idiot
who bores us ? No flamboyant over the top language and temper tantrums.

Are you feeling well Did Dr Warren
or the Beaker put an intelligent thought in your head.

Notice I matched your posts point
by point. You should try this comedy act on someone less prepared.

The Leftwing guilt trip works on
Viper85. He has no knowledge of history and wants to be a part of the clique. Therefore the fact that
he is Jewishand part of this madness gives him cachet.He needs
acceptance but at what price.I feel
sorry for him.