Thursday, October 26, 2006

The Stephen Scwartz enigma

Most of us know the familiar enemies of civilization. We can spot Marxist clowns miles away. The cartoon Jihadis like the CAIR clowns are also obvious.

However, Stephen Schwartz is something different and how we react to people like him may speak vollumes about us. Stephen Schwartz is an American Muslim and brilliant author who is the head of the Center for Islamic Pluralism. The first thing is Schwartz is a patriot and a firm believer in Western Civ. He sees Islam playing a role in Western Civ and we can debate how large. He loves our traditions and our country and sees Islam as being part of our fabric.

He is 100% against all forms of terrorism and causes CAIR more headaches than we ever could. A CAIR clown can dismiss an AC as an Islamophobe but Schwartz presents another problem.

If the vast majority of Muslims were as wise and had the integrity of Stephen Schwartz we would not be where we are today. The late Richard Nixon in his book Beyond Peace cautioned us not to end up in a clash of civilizations with Islam. The clash has been largely forced upon us by Wahabi nuts and violent religious nuts who just have no desire to live in Peace.

I have been reading his articles for a while and have these observations. His articles challenge our assumptions, but we do not see enough Schwartz types speaking up.

34 comments:

Robert Bayn said...

Islam means Submission, i don't see how one can have peace with this religion if it's sole mission is to bring everyone else into submission of Islam.

I'm sure their are patriotic Muslims, but i'm not sure i want a Muslim representing me in Government, i'm all for different Cultures and Ideals, but America is based on a Jewish-Christian philosophy, i think going away from that would be a big mistake

Always On Watch said...

Sufism is a form of mystic Islam. Traditionally, mystics haven't had much impact on the mainstream.

What is Schwartz's position on Israel? It's been a while since I visited his site.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Less talk. More bombs. The Japanese didn't surrender from getting their ears bored off.

Da Weaz said...

Nobody cares. And nobody comes to this site for morons except around four people.

Shut it down.

Elmer's Brother said...

da weaz (aka 40 year old virgin) thinks somebody cares what he thinks. Welcome to obscurity weazl.

beakerkin said...

Rob

Like Christianity there are many variants of beliefs. Islam does mean submission. I certainly disagree with Mr Schwartz about Islamic history.However, he is a genuine Muslim American Patriot.

His views on Sharia have been twisted. I agree that there is nothing wrong with allowing local authorities to control the laws of Halall. I woud also see no problems with local religious divorces and marriages so long as they conform to US norms and no multiple wives. The religious divorce terms would be subordinate to the state and be a formality. I do have genuine concern about the need for religious intervention in general commerce. However, I would listen to an explanation from Schwartz but never grant the same to a CAIR Clown.

AOW Mr Schwartz has always favored a Jewish state and does not run around endorsing insane conspiracy theories. He has specifically called on Muslims to reject talk of dual loyalty that poses a far greater threat to Muslims Than Jews.

Swartz will provide similar answers to Bedier on Islamic history when asked. However, Shwartz does not endorse or mitigate any act of violence, except for people who give his books bad reviews ( this is a joke). He evisions a Cosmopolitan Islam that is more atune with Western Values. He is 100% against mindless religious hatred of non-mslims. He disagrees with us on Jiyzah, but sees it as a relic of the past like Jim Crow. However, Copts in Egypts do have restrictions on the building of Churches.

Schwartz poses a threat to our assupmtion of crazed nuts and mealy
mouthed apologist for violence like the CAIR clowns. Schwartz's respect for Western Values and traditions presents challenges to our assumptions.

The trouble is that the media has empowered CAIR and not the CIP.

Mr Beamish Everything in the proper place. More bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan. I would also let Iran know that we can wipe out any facilities and infrastructure.

Weazie thank you for being one of the quote four people. I do not bother with your irrelevant site that draws no comments.

Who was behind your great 9-11 conspiracy Jay Leno or Eisner? Were the people at Frito Lay and Walmart in on your fantasies. Remember no salted snacks were found at Ground Zero. Walmart sold thosands of flags.

beakerkin said...

Elmer

Weazie thinks we care about his site. In the interest of good manners he was offered an interview way back, but refused. We have interviewed the Duck who did well and the Disgruntled Chemist who also did well.

Weazie lives in a fantasy world of his own imagination.

Farmer John said...

...are you sure it isn't a cut-and-paste world of his own creation?

beakerkin said...

Farmer

I have no idea why he comes here religiously two times a day. He was offered an interview and declined. We do not indulge his fantasies.

I do not take his posts seriously at all. We have many people that visit two or three times a day. We also know that Gertrude the anti-semite visits daily. Most of the people who come seek this place out.

I have readers in Romania, Netherlands and India who visit regularly but chose not to participate. A blog is akin to a radio talk show, some people read but never post.

Robert Bayn said...

If there are so many various beleifs in Islam, how come only one beleif speaks out, and that only one is to kill the Infidels, that would be like someone saying i don't agree with the KKK but never stating what it is they believe, so you have to either believe they are trying to trick you, or have no idea what it is they believe.

Mr. Ducky said...

Bayn seems to have boxed himself in.

"but i'm not sure i want a Muslim representing me in Government, i'm all for different Cultures and Ideals, but America is based on a Jewish-Christian philosophy..."

Let's take the "Judeo-Christian" idea at face value and ignore the Enlightenment. One value that would engender is a respect for the individual but you are unwilling to give that respect to a muslim.

Your values go only so far.

It's like "What does he say about Israel" as if that is the acid test that validates or invalidates all other positions.

You are going to have to move in mysterious ways to be in synchronicity with Judeo-Christian values. All the religious right offers is bigotry.

beakerkin said...

Rob you have summed up the challenge Schwartz provides us. We all loathe bomb throwing bigoted Jihadis that spill blood for no reason.

Yet Schwartz embodies the best of our Western traditions as a writer and free thinker. Schwartz has an excellent understanding of art and literary traditions. He understand and values our democratic Western traditions and loves our country.

Comparing the likes of Bedier to Schwartz is like comparing Bart Simpson to the Mona Lisa. We would be a much safer world if Schwartz's view were the dominant one. Schwartz challenges our perceptions of Islam, he may be fighting windmills, but one can not help but respect his heart, nobility and intellect.

beakerkin said...

Wrong Ducky and the only bigot I see here are you and Weazie. Schwartz challenges our assumptions
about Islam. The critique of most on the right is that there are too few Stephen Schwartz types in American Islam.

The problem is the Muslim community has allowed CAIR clowns to present themselves as the sole face of Islam. The community has also not been vocal in its patriotism like Schwartz who does not mince words.

Mr. Ducky said...

Schwartz challenges our assumptions about muslims?

How did you get those bigoted assumptions in the first place? Wasn't by using Christian ethics.Does everyone have the same assumptions. Must everyone's "assumptions" conform to your or AOW or merry widow's bigotry?

CAIR is the sole face of Islam. That ranks with your best, Beak. Pitch till you win.

beakerkin said...

Duck lets run this by slowly.

Do note that none of my criticisms of Islam are ever baed in theology.
They are based in History and actions in current events.

Schwartz himself would be the first to tell you, lefties in the media have been promoting CAIR and screaming lunatics as the face of Islam in America. Schwartz doesn't like the CAIR clowns any more than we do. However, the Muslim community has said very little to convince AOW, TMW and Rob that CAIR and religious nuts do not speak for them.

Schwartz and I disagree on Islamic history. He is also critical of Muslims forming alliances with your kind. It seems unlike you, Schwartz understands where dual loyalty and conspiracy talk can end up. There is no group that is more dererving of scrutiny for dual loyalty than your own Ducky.

Do note I do not call Muslims vermin. I reserve that name for Marxists whose mass slaughter and treason richly deserve that term.

Robert Bayn said...

Am i a Bigot? In your opinion maybe, but your opinion amounts to about a 100 pound bag of horse dung. This would not be the first time i been called a bigot, some 2 years ago, on this same blog, i was called a bigot i remember the phrase so well "bob is a bigot", and why was i called that than? Because i did not conform to the religious right, and i still don't, i stand on my own two feet, thank you very much.

Absolutely, i think America should have different cultures, dosen't mean i want that different culture controlling my government, especally in a age of Terror, where people who say they are Muslim want to kill people like myself just because i believe in the Almighty, and because i won't "submit" to their religion.

Beak, would it be fair to say Schwartz is in the minority than, because i sure don't hear about many Patriotic Muslims, in fact just yesterday i read a report that a majority of American Muslims now believe that the war in Iraq is a war on Islam, that don't sound very Patriotic to me!

beakerkin said...

Rob

That would be fair and somewhat accurate. Moreover, Schwartz embodies and praises Western Civ that the Duck disdains.

Farmer John said...

Funny how all the pseudo-civil-rights organizations like CAIR and the ACLU all come out of left field. They can't win a single argument at the ballot-box, so they take them all to the bench.

The funniest part though, is that they claim to do it in the name of the people!

Mr. Ducky said...

Beak, if you want to talk about dual loyalties why not mention Mad Zionists site.

Seems a clear case of dual loyalties but his are the "good" ones. Right?

beakerkin said...

Duck

Back to Anti-Semitic mode again. Lets see MZ has never supported the enemies of the United States at any time. MZ is a patriot in any description by rational people.

On the other hand you have a history of supporting every enemy of the USA. You repeat stock Communist party doctrine such as excusing Cuban brutality in Angola.
You never did get around to explaining Eithiopa. Nor does Cuban aid to Communist thug elements that call themselves freedom fighters seem to bother you.

It is clear that your loyalties are very suspect. You should consider emigrating to Venezuela to be in a new thugocracy.

Farmer John said...

Ducky...

Madze and his buds aren't driving planes into our buildings.

Now do you get it?

Farmer John said...

Sole face of Islam? What does the acronym CAIR stand for duck? It ain't CASR (S for Sunni or Salafi or I for Iranian or Iraqi).

Farmer John said...

...just like the ACLU claims to stand for all Americans. LOL!

Farmer John said...

The devil's in the details and the devil is always sure to throw a suitable blanket over himself to hide under while he works.

beakerkin said...

FJ

Along time ago Mr Beamish posted that if you do not maintain your site porn sites will sometimes take a blog title. Well 167's old blog has become a porno site. This has made a marked improvement in post quality and standards.

Farmer John said...

I wouldn't know about that, but perhaps he can take solace in the fact that his old site is finally attracting the eyes he so desperately craved.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Ducky,

You're Catholic. I sincerely doubt you've ever been exposed to Christian theology.

Elmer's Brother said...

All the religious right offers is bigotry.

Even Boy George wouldn't take what you're offering Ducky for free.

a $3 bill?

JINGOIST said...

I heard on the radio today that 63% of all Germans, according to a poll, live in fear of radical Islam. Have we emasculated them to that extent? Why have the Germans gone from one extreme to the other?

Morgan

Elmer's Brother said...

Liberals can start lecturing me on racism and bigotry when they are done creating more of it.

Robert Bayn said...

I would say that a segment of people who Call themselves Christians, haven't a clue what being A Christian (follower of Christ or Christ Like) really means.

Always On Watch said...

Beak,
the Muslim community has said very little to convince AOW, TMW and Rob that CAIR and religious nuts do not speak for them.

So far, CAIR has declined to comment on the documentary Obsession. I just posted about that silence from CAIR.

Moderate Muslims are strangely silent. Therefore, I question their existence. Now, I know there must be some out there, but they certainly aren't very vocal. Remember the Muslims Against Terror March? How many showed up? CAIR categorically refused to participate.

Always On Watch said...

Beak,
Thank you the information on Schwartz's views. Would that more Muslims felt the same way! Or at least said so.

Freedomnow said...

There is no terrorist threat

There is no place like home

There is no terrorist threat

There is no place like home

There is no terrorist threat

There is no place like home

There is no terrorist threat

There is no place like home