Tuesday, July 27, 2010

Functional Adaptations or European Savages

I took a brief respite from Michener's Poland where I have 100 pages to go and took a visit to the Strand Bookstore. A very dedicated coworker is taking Maternity Leave. I went to the Strand Bookstore to look for an additional copy of Poland. I wanted to find a decent biography of Kosciusko and some of the works of Rutherford. I did not find what I was looking for.

I did pick up some interesting books for later reading. I picked up a book on the history of antisemitism in the UK (autographed), a book about Quannah Parker and The American Revolution in Indian Country.

I am exceedingly annoyed by the arrogance and ignorance of people in the UK with their arrogant and ignorant comments about their own history with American Indians and Slavery. While the British did lead the abolition movement they have their own history in this area. As for Indians they used them when expedient and tossed them to the side when convenient.

All nations have these episodes in their past. To their credit with rare exception Germany has recognized the Holocaust and made ammends as best as possible. No serious patriot denies the history with Indians and Slavery. However, the condescending ignorance of people in the UK ignoring exploiting Indians is a bit much.

I find the chapter describing how Europeans and Indians borrowed items from each others communities. Indians possessed an array of European trade goods and sometimes worked as Carpenters. In turn their is some comedic reading about Europeans ( mainly Scots) wearing Indian clothing on the frontier. Then again the crops and clothing were developed by people who
living in often rugged environment. Indians in Canada sometimes patterned their houses and clothing after their French neighbors. Cultural exchanges is a normal historical practice so Scots and Irish Mountain Men wearing Indian clothing and Indians using guns and European tools is to be expected.


Alligator said...

Beak, it is very well documented that of the Europeans ethnic groups interacting with Native American tribes, the Scots were probably the most successful. Most of the field employees and agents of the big fur companies like Hudson's Bay and Northwest Company were Scots. A lot of the "British" agents working with the Cherokees, Creek, Choctaw, Seminole and Chickasaw prior to 1815 were actually Scots. A lot of Indian families have Scot surnames today.

beakerkin said...

The early French and Swedes would contest that claim. I do not know why but the author seems to present the early mountain men as a Scot and to a lesser extent an Irish thing. Mountain men did dress as Indians.

To a lesser degree even some of the music crossed cultures. Tales of Irish soldiers singing Indian war songs and mountain men tatooing themselves to look like Indians are factual.

Cateran said...

Beak said...I did pick up some interesting books for later reading. I picked up a book on the history of antisemitism in the UK (autographed)...

I doubt you'll find much history of antisemtism in most of the nations that make up UK(s) - particularly prior to the Act of Union. Yes, there was a good deal of anti-Semitism south of Hadrian's Wall, like Edward I's Edict of Expulsion. But a lot of the Jews that were forced out of England ended up in Scotland, and it might be of interest to you that Scotland is the only European country which has no history of state persecution of Jews. By the way, when Longshanks kicked the Jews out of London, the money he confiscated from them was used to finance some of the costs of his invasions of Scotland.

Beak said...While the British did lead the abolition movement they have their own history in this area.

Darn tooting they have an history of slavery. Britain had been shipping white slaves (conveniently renamed by Royal edict from slaves to "His Majesty's Prisoners") to their Caribbean possessions and to the Americas right up to the Revolutionary War. After that market dried up, they sent them to Australia.

In some manners, the abolition movement in Britain, and in the States could be viewed as hypocritical. At the same time people were appalled at the thought of black slaving, Britain was clearing the Irish and Scots off their hereditary lands (it was called "Improving") and shipping them around the world in coffin ships. America, on the other hand, generally treated the Irish that arrived on their shores as a lesser form of life than the average black.

Even your champion of the abolition movement, Harriet Beecher Stowe was blind to what was going on in Britain at the same time she was bemoaning the treatment of blacks. And yet she had first-hand knowledge of it. Stowe, as the darling of the abolitionist movement, even visited Scotland. When she was there she stayed with The Duke and Duchess of Sutherland - these two proud abolitionists were the worst of the "Improvers". In fact Stowe was so taken in by the Sutherlands, and so oblivious to what was going on around her, she wrote a record of her stay in the Highlands in "Sunny Memories".

Beak said...As for Indians they used them when expedient and tossed them to the side when convenient.

And who didn't toss them aside when it was convenient?

Randle Patrick McMurphy said...

My Cherokee Great Grandmother's maiden name was Janie Duncan. So, there you go.

Cateran said...

By manoeuvring around the road apples, we should be able to continue the topic at hand:

Beak said...I do not know why but the author seems to present the early mountain men as a Scot and to a lesser extent an Irish thing.

Because he's correct? The Fur Trade was dominated by Scots - 3/4 of Hudson's Bay Co. was Scottish and the Northwest Company was almost entirely made up of Scots. Hell, they were hiring able young men right from the Highlands and the Orkneys and shipping them directly to North America to work in the Fur Trade.

And they not only traded furs, they explored and charted a great part of this continent, too - Alexander Mackenzie and Simon Fraser come to mind.

None of this could have been accomplished without a great deal of mutual respect between the Native peoples and the Scots. Hell, the descendents of these Fur Traders and explorers, the Métis people still speak the Gaelic.

Beak said...The early French and Swedes would contest that claim.

I don't know about the Swedes, but the French definitely played a part. See Métis (above).

Randall Patrick McMurphy said...

Now, was that really necessary? Talk about inflammatory postings?

By the way, I'm having a problem with your Metis hyperlink.

Cateran said...


Randall Patrick McMurphy said...

I'll check it out, my way, but your hyperlink still doesn't work. I put my cursor over it and it won't allow me to click on it. Does it work for you?

Come on, Mac. I'm going to read your link, either way.

Randall Patrick McMurphy said...

What? Can't you fix the hyperlink you failed to post correctly, even for the convenience of the other readers?

I got you there! Let me nitpick, like you do, if you please.

Cateran said...

You've got me have you? If anything, I knew you'd screech like Ann Coulter over that link. You're far too predictable for your own good.

Anyhow, as I previously mentioned, as long as you're trolling here, you may as well learn something in the process.

As any webmaster, such as yourself, should know, there are only certain standard characters that are allowed when one names an Unified Resource Locator. Unfortunately, Wikipedia (a website that you're quite fond of, if memory serves) is rather (in)famous for its use of non-standard characters within its URLs.

Your browser, something we webmasters refer to as "Client-side" scripting, has no problem resolving URLs that have been coded by amateur pinheads.

I suppose they have to or people wouldn't be able to access a goodly number of websites on the Internet. That's why you can copy and paste the link into your address bar and access the URL.

On the other hand, due to security concerns, Server-side scripts (like this one you're trolling) do not resolve non-allowed characters very well.

So, even if one codes his link correctly using non-allowable characters, he's wasting his time.

If you want to waste yours, have a go at coding the Métis hyperlink for the convenience of the others that you're all of a sudden so concerned about.

Now, even an absolute buckwheat webmaster would have looked at the URL I posted and noticed, rather than the é in Métis there is this nonsense M%C3%A9tis - a sure sign of a malformed URL. And he'd have understood the issue and moved on without a squeak. Not you, though.

So, can we get back to the topic at hand?

Randy, the amateur pinhead said...

Well, that explains everything!

You mean, thanks to me, you found out how you erred?

"...an Unified Resource Locator"?

But let me get this straight. Was it my browser's Client side scripting capabilities, and/or, "on the other hand", Beaks Server side scripting capabilities, that caused your problem and wasted our time?

I may be fond of Wikipedia, but you used it above, which caused your problem, and your chagrin, so I'll leave that as it lay.

"An absolute buckwheat webmaster..."? Is there a veiled racist disparagement embedded within that comment, Spanky?

But I'll have to hand it to you, Webmaster Extraordinaire. That was the most sophisticated covering of one's ass I've ever read.

Cateran said...

Randy sez"...an Unified Resource Locator"?

See, didn't I tell you that you'd learn something.

As I already said to you, "...have a go at coding the Métis hyperlink for the convenience of the others that you're all of a sudden so concerned about."

Fly at it, pal, show me how it's done.

Randy sez...Is there a veiled racist disparagement embedded within that comment...

Gosh, I don't know, is there?

I take it that, like the other threads you're trolling, you've nothing meaningful to add to the topic, then?

Well, other than your Cherokee great-grandmother, of course.

Hey, you wouldn't be a Paul Revere and the Raiders fan, too, would you?

I gather that's a fairly common thing amongst some white folks.

Oh, and I mean having a Cherokee grandma, not being a Paul Revere fan.

Universal Randy said...

Our genealogy shows Cherokee ancestry and my grandparents told me about the ancestry of their parents. That is all I need to know. I know it's common for ANYBODY to claim Cherokee ancestry, but in my case I have no reason to believe my kin lied to me or that the genealogy is in error. But lies and errors may have occurred, at some point in the line, I'll grant you that. But unlike Ward Churchill, who claims Cherokee ancestry, and who can't even produce one relative to corroborate his claims, I have well over 100 that can, backed by a genealogy that I believe can be trusted.

In addition, family lore was related to me that my Great Grandmother, Janie Duncan, was a traveler on the Trail of Tears when she became ill and couldn't continue. She was left by the wayside and taken in by my OTHER relations, nursed back to health and was eventually wed to my Great Grandfather Thomas Winters. Knowing that the Winters of the period came from the area of S. West Kentucky I was wondering about the route of the Trail of Tears. I didn't think it passed through Winters country. However, in researching it I noticed there were actually two routes, a northern and southerly route. The northern route passed directly through the Kuttawa/Eddyville Barkley lake country, exactly where my relations came from. So there you go. I believe what my grandparents told me. By the way, as an aside, Eddyville is just a couple of clicks east of Cape Girardeau, MO. Birth place of Rush and David Limbaugh.

Mac said:
"have a go at coding the Métis hyperlink for the convenience of the others that you're all of a sudden so concerned about."

Why attempt the impossible, like you? Just Google "Wikipedia Metis". It's first on the list. Easy? You should have checked the link before you posted it. Interesting that over 50% of western Canadians are likely Metis.

Randle Patrick McMurphy said...

I revere Paul Revere but I'm a die hard Broncos fan, even when their down in the pre-season prognostications.

Cateran said...

So, back to the topic at hand, I take it you believe that your great-grandma is revelant to the discussion. How so?

Randle Patrick McMurphy said...

See the first post by the Gator, above.

Randle Patrick McMurphy said...

Which of us is exhibiting more of the character traits of a troll now? You've made several inflammatory "contributions" thus far, no?

It's a good thing that it takes much more to get me hot under the collar than it apparently does you.