Saturday, February 13, 2010

Holocaust Denial and Leftist American Versions

The Dr. is having second thoughts about going to the AMREN conference. He has expressed
concern that his career would be ruined by being tarred a racist. Obviously if he had those concerns he should have looked at some of his recent posts.

When news broke that he was going to address this bigots conference I told him if he must go then he should use the podium to discuss Holocaust Denial. Similar sentiments
were stated by The Pagan Temple who really confused the folks there. How white supremacists view his embrace of ancient European deities as "negro" is beyond comprehension. Than again when one advocates racial hygiene they have identified themselves as an imbecile.

The Dr. does grasp my concerns about a room that includes Holocaust deniers. However, he mistakes this as the sole source of my outrage. His complaint that opponents to this event are communists misses the mark. There are Bolshevik vermin opposed to this racist conference, but they are merely political opportunists.

The Dr. is fond of pointing out I am a Jew. My relatives were exterminated by advocates of the same idea he is espousing racial hygiene. The Nazis didn't wake up and decide to toss Jews in the ovens directly. First there was a long campaign to portray them as subhuman. There were laws about race mixing and Jews were prohibited
from certain types of jobs. There were hate publications notably Der Shturmer that shared the Dr's obsession with miscegenation.

A Jew with a sense of history would be mortified by the advocacy of the very ideas that led to the extermination of family members. This outrage would not be lessened
by the idea that Blacks are the ones being dehumanized instead of Jews.

As an American who took an oath to uphold the Constitution against enemies foreign and domestic the idea offends me. I was talking with a friends at work and the subject of why I love this country so much came up. One of the tings I really love about this country is that there are no second class citizens. It is true that rich people like Bill Ayers buy their freedom and jobs. It is also true that some degree of nepotism does happen. However, we are all given a basic set of individual rights and liberties. As a person that applies law sometimes it is ironic and ponderous. I want to be the first to state my good fortune to work alongside people who take the
law very seriously.

The notion that government should involve itself in the private relations of its citizens is deeply offensive to me as an American. The choice of whom to love is deeply personal and really none of anyone's business. It goes for folks like Dr. Yeagley who preaches racial hygiene and Tyne Daly who couldn't go a paragraph without saying her husband is Black. My criticism is not that the latter married a person of another race. My criticism was her droning on about something that is really not a big deal endlessly. 90% of Americans really don't care about this. Furthermore, romance and love in the modern economy with two working spouses is tough enough without racial goonery.

The ideas at the AMREN conference offend me as a Jew. However, they also offend me in what is closest to my heart AMERICANISM.

On the communist site of Troutsky he complains that antiwar protesters in the 60's
did not spit at returning soldiers. He claims it is a false image burned into the psyche of Americans.

Antiwar protesters did abuse soldiers returning from Vietnam. As a young child I personally witnessed this. Soldiers were called baby killers and worse by Commies who were drugged and frequently unwashed.

Commies tried to peddle a myth that has no basis in truth that they were popular. In fact they were loathed by Americans. They were loathed for their lawless behavior and arrogance. Vandalism, arson and terrorism are not protected forms of speech. They are crimes that should have been punished aggressively.

A picture of how protesters were really viewed by the public is in the aftermath of Kent State and the hard Hat Riots. The troops at Kent State were clearly provoked by the students who threw rocks at armed National Guardsmen. This came days after the same lawless commies vandalized the town itself. If you see the statements from the public people were upset that more protesters weren't shot. While this is not my personal sentiment it is reflective of the anger at the time directed at commies. The sad part about Kent State was the people who were shot were a great distance away
and not the people who threw rocks at the guardsmen. The tactics of commies was to provoke a reaction and wail about it. The public was not fooled by commie tactics and if you don't believe me watch the NYT puff piece on Kent State where people were complaining the guardsmen didn't shoot enough protesters.

The hard hat riot in NYC was an episode where construction workers fed up with lawless commies burning the flag reacted. The actual blue collar workers despite being out numbered at least three to one kicked the crap out of commies. Some commies ran crying for protection to the "pigs" and the "capitalist exploiters of Wall Street". It seems the actual blue collar workers had spoken, but commies only heard their own fantasies about workers joining them. The crowd and public reaction at the time was overwhelmingly supportive of the construction workers.

Around the 80's the political winds shifted. The children of that era grew up in the age of Reagan. Much of the popular fiction reflected the disgust with protesters. The TV show Family Ties was supposed to be a vehicle for Merredith Baxter Birney. The public was enamored with a little Canadian actor playing a youthful young Republican in conflict with his idealistic but loving hippie bum parents. It also represented what much of the youth felt about the idiocy of hippies.

Rambo was one of many movies that showed a troubled Vet betrayed by his government.
The public reaction to these films was not what Hollywood expected. Rambo became a superhero almost akin to a troubled post John Wayne cross with superman. It was quietly also the rejection of commie vilification of the Vietnam Veteran who always were the real heroes.

Monuments to the Veterans were built in that era. Tom Hayden proposed building one to the protesters and was laughed at. Even Gomer Kerry tried to cash in on this act with a Movie review of Apocalypse Now and fake stories in the Senate while trying to aid the Sandanistas.

In college one outraged professor went on a rant about a horrible TV show full of lies glorifying Vietnam Veterans. This resulted in students forming parties to watch Tour of Duty with plenty of beer. Professors tried to peddle a myth of a nation that
agreed with the protesters. The students who lived in that era frequently told the professors that not how it was. I remember a wonderful professor talking about the idealism of her era. The students pointed out the massive amounts of drugs and laziness of her generation. She laughed and admitted there was a great amount of truth in those statements.

Even in liberal NYC the winds had shifted. The NY Post was in its glory days with wonderful articles by Briendel, Kerrison and even the Daily News carried some conservative op ed writers. The professors did not like the Post, but listening to Bob Grant on the radio was considered by some Satanic. An upstart named Limbaugh had a show in NYC that featured Caller Abortions. We paid tribute to that feature on this blog when we invented Troll abortions. The practice spread beyond this blog and others picked up on it.

The funny part is you can see Rambo, Family Ties, Forrest Gump with ease on cable. Even Tour of Duty which lasted two seasons is shown. One has to hunt for Born on the 4th of July, Reds or the Front.

The notion that Commie protesters were loved lawful and respectful to Vietnam Veterans is pure fiction. Commies need to come to terms with the reality that they were despised and still are. I see the paranoia in their ranks about the Tea Party movement and laugh.

The winds have changed and commies don't like the prospect of Coffee Shop conservatism. Coffee Shop conservatism is a mix of fiscal conservatism and patriotism. It is grass roots, practical and celebrates our founding spirit.

25 comments:

CM said...

Beakerkin,

I can't quite remember which forum it was on or a Blog, but yeagley was relating names to being Black. Jessie, Tom, Obadiah, Jade and even Owens is a black sounding name. Names are what we atribute respect or Love to another by giving them these names....not one of his a** kisser posters called him down on such things. I mean when a poster says these things its their opinion, but when the owner of the forum, blog dictates and shouts or deletes or threatens down any input thats beyond reason.....poor thang, I really believe someone needs to be beside/behind yeagley, I do not want to see him physically hurt, but he can go to Hell with his "A WHITE COMANCHES' VIEW ON WHITE AMERICA." He is "NOT" 1/2 Comanche he is eroneously enrolled as 1/8th. I am proud to say I am Full Blood Comanche and very proud to have battled the Savage Warrior mythical badeagle, who loves to take down strong independant Indian women. I will continue to read and take it to the Comanche Nation, after all he is Proud to claim his mythical badeagle was a turncoat scout fighting against the Comanche. I was born and raised in Comanche Land, he was NOT!

COMANCHEMOON

Z said...

How ODD that you'd posted this while I was posting my Hasidic piece.
Thanks SO much for your input; that really helped clear things up for my readers. xx

The Pagan Temple said...

The confusion was based on my support for individual freedom when it comes to the rights to engage in interracial relationships. Like you say, it is none of anybody's business. Thrasymachus in particularly found it amazing that someone who worships ancient European deities could be so accepting of the rights of interracial couples to be left in peace.

Unfortunately, there are some pagan groups who express the view that the races should be separate and not engage in "race mixing". Thrasymachus obviously thinks that any pagan should hold similar views.

In point of fact, there is nothing in ancient pagan traditions of which I am aware that bans mixed marriages. Even if they did, it would be irrelevant today.

The idea that American citizens of any race should have the right to seek employment anywhere, live anywhere they choose, engage in relationships of all kinds with any of any race they choose, seems so blatantly obvious it should not even be a fit subject for debate. Anybody that claims to be an American should take that for granted.

Thrasymachus, and I guess Yeagley as well, see all religion through a prism of those who advocate conversion through proselytizing.

No pagan traditions of which I am aware believe in this, but if anybody is interested, we try to be open and accepting to all, regardless of race. Thrasymachus's limited experience with pagans is obviously that of a very small sub-set of mostly neo-Nazis.

In fact, they are even a very small minority among the Asatru, who worship the Norse gods. The Asatru actually don't claim them. They are known as Wotanists, and most of them are to be found in neo-nazi prison populations. They are not tolerated by the Asatruer population at large.

Cateran said...

Give Thrasymachus some credit, he is, at the very least, amusing. After numerous years moderating the Scottish forum on BE, I've had many encounters with "Celts" like him. Generally, they're white supremacists who are looking for some of link in their mixed genetic (they're all about haplogroups, those lads) makeup that links them to some imaginary white race.

Celtic is a linguist group and not a singular race. The manner it's thrown about nowadays has only been around since the early seventies.

Now, in regard to pagans and race mixing, "back in the day" as the saying goes, chances are the real "pagans" (silly term, that) would have been offering their women folk to visitors. Race wouldn't have been much of an issue, hospitality and strengthening the bloodlines of the tribal group would have been far more important.

The_Editrix said...

"Celtic is a linguist group and not a singular race."

Doesn't that apply to "Aryans" and "Semites" as well?

Always On Watch said...

The Dr. is having second thoughts about going to the AMREN conference.

Why would he even consider going to an AMREN event?

I see that AMREN had some difficulty in finding a venue for this year's conference.

But the organization did find a venue, in Northern Virginia, of all places. Note this:

Men like Nick Griffin, Craig Bodeker, David Yeagley, Sam Dickson, and Jared Taylor have all graced our weekly show with their presence in the past few months. And there are many more speakers lined up!

Nick Griffin of the BNP is scheduled to appear as a speaker.

beakerkin said...

Griffin in the past has called the Holocaust the Holohoax.

Oddly, mainstream politicians are somewhat responsible for the rise of the BNP. Their refusal to discuss immigration at all opened the field for the worst forms of populism.

Yeagley has stated his speech will
directly address Holocaust denial, However racial hygiene was the idea
behind the Holocaust.

The_Editrix said...

"However racial hygiene was the idea behind the Holocaust."

If that were true they'd been after the (admittedly few) Germans of Africans descent as well. However, they weren't touched. The tale that Hitler refused to shake the hand of Jesse Owens is a politically correct lie.

Also, they had no hangups about rubbing shoulders with "Semites" who hated the Jews as much as they did. Also, they considered the Japanese worthy allies and had no hangups about their "race" either.

"Race" was only a smoke screen. They were after the spiritual essence of Jewishness. Jews brought monotheism to the world, the human conscience, responsibility, charity. And every God-less person feels reminded of his God-lessness by the sight of any Jew and will neither sleep nor slumber until the last Jew has gone from the face of the earth.

THAT is behind antisemitism. "Racism" has nothing -- but NOTHING -- to do with it. NOT ONE TINY BIT!

The Pagan Temple said...

Cataran-

Pagan simply means country dweller. It came to be a pejorative prior to the Dark Ages, somewhat similar to referring to somebody today as a hick, or a country bumpkin. It became adopted by Christendom as a term for alleged religious holdouts, who were most generally country dwellers. It may not be the best of terminologies, though it does elicit a certain romanticized image which is divorced from the original meaning.

I don't think they would have been offering their women folk to visitors, unless there were women kept for this purpose, certainly not family members.

Race mixing just wasn't an issue in those days, it was more tribal than that. The higher classes engaged in marriages with outsiders of high status to forge alliances. The more common person was more isolated. Travel was a rarity, unless you were a merchant seaman or soldier.

I think Thrasymachus's point also might have been that different races had their different concepts of deity, which is certainly true.

However, what he fails to grasp is that there was no widespread view that could be considered religious intolerance. Even the Romans, for all their other many faults, accepted the deities of subject peoples and their values, up to a point. They balked at the idea of human sacrifice, though that was a rarity by then anywhere, and they suppressed such practices where they found them, but for the most part they practiced religious tolerance. It was as much political as anything. They even allowed Jews in their domain to observe the Sabbath and the rest of the Law of Moses, and refrain from serving in the Roman military even if they held Roman citizenship.

If anything, they stove for understanding of peoples beliefs, even taking it to the extent that they searched for identifying characteristics among their gods. To their way of thinking, if a deity like say Cerridwen displayed certain characteristics, this was tentative evidence this deity was actually Athene manifesting herself in a way that would be appropriate to the different culture. Or Thor might actually be Zeus, etc.

I wanted to explain all this to him, but Yeagley made another post which pushed that one to the back page, so I decided not to bother. It probably would have been a waste of time anyway.

beakerkin said...

Editrix

Hitler was more flexible than the cartoon image presented today. For all his rants about Bolshevism when it was expedient he formed an alliance with Communists to divide Europe.

Nazism did come from the left where populist antisemitism has been endemic. Jews were portrayed as subhuman and devious by Nazis.

beamish said...

I believe Hitler's hatred of Jews flowed from the various schools of socialism encountered in forming his labor movement, the Nazi Party.

Marx's "World Without Jews" essay echoes the sentiment of Hitler and his fellow leftists. Judaism was identified with capitalism by Marx and quite a few other socialism advocates. Hitler spoke many times about the Nazi desire to destroy capitalism, and he believed, as many leftists do even today, that capitalism can't be destroyed in a world with Jews.

Ducky's here said...

Beak, are you referring to the new film being produced in Israel that is sympathetic with Finklestein?

It's in the latest Cineaste, check it out.

Ducky's here said...

Actually, Beamish, "World without Jews" was Marx concerned that Jews did not identify as workers before identifying as Jews. It's a question of identity but if you think it's a call for extermination then you are a fool.

Remember, folks, Beamish is the guy who thinks a string quartet is led by a conductor. There's some interesting banter on his site about classical music where he essentially relegates Beethoven to a position lower than Metallica's "Enter Sandman". A giant.

CM said...

HAPPY VALENTINES DAY,

Well,,,it is now 12:19 in OK. and yeagley is still asleep....want to slap him????

Nothing to report to the Comanche Nation of late. I know he has more important things on his mind....I just hope he forgets he is Comanche at this conference. So many people disagree with the man, but he cares NOT. His former posters who had to admire him at one time, who's fault is it that they all left? I could blame the female less than 1/2 breed, but its not her....it falls on yeagly himself.

I could see him walking Reno with the winos he places at the bottom of the barrell, a broken man....I hope not, but thats what I see, if its not too late to change, a CHANGE IS NEEDED! The best of two Worlds he could have had with all his Education. He chose one!

Thrasy even says "I disagree with "mainstream" definition of success, If you're making the most of your potential you ARE successful, the opinion of the world not withstanding." The problem is yeagley is NOT a success because he is NOT MAKING THE MOST OF HIS POTENTIAL. All those degrees....shame on him

CM

The_Editrix said...

"Nazism did come from the left where populist antisemitism has been endemic. Jews were portrayed as subhuman and devious by Nazis."

Yes, and in the context of my comment to which you are presumably replying: So?

"I believe Hitler's hatred of Jews flowed from the various schools of socialism encountered in forming his labor movement, the Nazi Party."

Yes Mr. B. No doubt your "schools of socialism" taught you more than my long life as a German -- one of the people of perpetrators -- among the people of perpetrators coupled with intensive and extensive scholarly studies taught me.

Do you know the old joke about the zoology student whose speciality were worms? However, at his finals he was questioned about elephants. So he took off: "The elephant has a vermicular nose. The worms...". The operative word in your reply is "believe". Belief is a bad advisor when it's about knowledge.

CM said...

Nazi-abreviation "Nationalsocialist" and full name of Hitler's Political Party,(translated)was "The National socialist German Worker's Party" in German-Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei.

I don't know why I came upon this tidbit today, but other than the bad info on the Jewish People we were taught in school(Holocaust) the German People are members of the Human Race!

The Germans made friends with the Comanche in Frederickburg Tx., the first White people to befriend the Native American with a Peace Treaty in 1847, of course this was for protection of their familes, but hey it worked and it was progress.

Another thing.....I don't believe inspite yeagleys' hammering away constantly is "American was founded on Christianity". The Euros came running from oppression and their own personal freedom, but they did not create American on Christian beliefs...not when they slaughtered away what they called the dirty Savages they found.

These First nations lived their way...they survived until the "real" Savages landed on the lush Paradise and took over and raped it clean.

Just my pennys worth!

CM

The Pagan Temple said...

Ducky-

You should listen to you some Metallica. With an open mind, I mean. Metallica wrote Enter Sandman and a lot of other great songs. Beethoven wrote Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. I know, he wrote that when he was young, but the point is, you shouldn't judge an artist based on just one example out of what is actually a large body of work.

beamish said...

Editrix,

I think Ducky can be excused from the discussion because it would push him beyond the pale of leftism to acquire even a modicum of reading comprehension skills.

But you, I would think, would accept actual history. The Nazis were left-wing socialists, and proudly so. The Nazi ideological hatred for Jews and capitalism flows right out the political and economic writings of Karl Marx that conflated Jews and capitalism together.

The Swastika, the symbol of Hitler's left-wing labor movement, was first used on post-Bolshevik Revolution currency printed in Russia as a symbol of socialism.

The Nazis were leftists. Serious discussion begins there.

Cateran said...

Beak said...
"The sad part about Kent State was the people who were shot were a great distance away and not the people who threw rocks at the guardsmen."

And you're advocating shooting children for civil disobedience? Sorry, Beak, that's the sort of thing that goes on in Communist countries, isn't it? Or have we forgotten Tiananmen Square already.

As you say, that is pretty sad.

Editrix said
"Doesn't that apply to "Aryans" and "Semites" as well?"

I thought "Aryan" was something that the Nazis cooked up to suit their white race fantasy. In other words, a pretendy race.

No idea about Semites, the Beak'll have to answer that one.

AOW said
Nick Griffin of the BNP is scheduled to appear as a speaker.

Problem the "British" National Party has, is, well, it's British. Seeing as Britain is in the process of coming apart at the seams, they're just another Unionist Party that no one needs.

Ignoring their founding principles (we're all happy white brothers and we want it to stay that way), they have no following outwith England. As a for instance, there's no BNP representative in Scotland. Wales hardly gets a mention and probably only does because the average Englishman still thinks Wales is part of England.

They're the "English" National Party, end of story.

Pagan Temple said
"Pagan simply means country dweller."

Yes, thus my comment.

"Travel was a rarity, unless you were a merchant seaman or soldier."

I'm of the mind that people that
travelled far more than we give them credit for
.

"I wanted to explain all this to him, but Yeagley made another post which pushed that one to the back page, so I decided not to bother."

I think you marginalised yourself with your opening comments on his Blog. You were the person that described yourself as transgendered or something along those lines weren't you? I daresay at that point, you probably were wasting your time. No matter how valid your following points were to be.

beakerkin said...

Mac

The National Guard was at Kent State because of the protests were not peaceful. The adjacent city had its storefronts smashed and looted. The protesters set fire to buildings cut the fire hoses and assaulted firemen.
All this happened before the National Guard arrived.

The protesters threw rocks at the National Guard. Shooting peaceful protesters is abhorrent. However, this was a lawless crowd which was led by Communist agitators. Once they started criminal acts like looting, arson or assaulting troops
who are there in a law enforcement
capacity this is a different story.
99 times out of 100 the best solution is policemen with nightsticks. Over time this story has been spun where the real criminality was forgotten.

Editrix

Commies were rivals of Nazis not their polar opposite. Commies also
conveniently dismiss anything that they do not like as fascist or blame it on Stalin, Mao or whatever.

Hitler was a leftist who started
a labor party. He was more flexible than most leftists and added and subtracted when it suited him. He was opportunistic and way more flexible than the cartoon image we have created.

Commies have spun the fable that Nazism is the polar opposite of communism. This is simply not true
and it was a rival leftist approach.

Ducky's here said...

Pagan, why would you think that simply because I believe Metallica sucks that I haven't listened to them?

As I told Beamish, if you think that the Sting Quartet in B flat major is an inferior musical creation to some dipstick running a couple of arpeggios off a standard blues chord progression then there just isn't much base for discussion.

CM said...

The original American Renaissance was established by writers, Artisis, and composers, sculptures. Their goal was a movement for new ideas in Literature, Religion and Culture and Philosophy in the early to middle 19th Century.

This group consisting of Ralph Waldo Emerson, Louisa May Alcott, Nathanal Hawthorne, Daniel Chester French, Henry w. Longfellow, Whittier, Harriette Beecher stowe, Walt Whitman, Herman Melville, Emily Dickinson, Mark Twain and Henry David Thoreau, studied and grouped together and some even were friends of the Native Americans and admired their lifestyle and studied them. From what I gather reading, these people loved their surroundings and lived the life of a true American Culture. I admire and remember these names from High School. I don't think now days our schools even push English Literature!

This group to me, are the ones who helped establish and shape my America. Not the Charles Dickenson and yeagleys of the World led by a racist such as Taylor.

Notice, Charles Dickenson who visited America twice, is NOT listed among these notibles. He could analyze and condemn the Natives with just two visits.

From what I read in his "The Noble Savage", he would not be much of a friend to this Literature group. He would be the David Yeagley of their time.
An outcast....notable to some, but still an outcast. His stories seem to remind me of Charlie Brown....always sad and dreary! I must check to see if I have any...I will throw them away immediately, hah!

CM

Cateran said...

All due respect, CM, but in my view, Harriet Beecher Stowe doesn't belong on that list. Her book was a novel and she was blind to genuine racism when she finally came face to face with it.

Cateran said...

Beak said
"The National Guard was at Kent State because of the protests were not peaceful. The adjacent city had its storefronts smashed and looted. The protesters set fire to buildings cut the fire hoses and assaulted firemen. All this happened before the National Guard arrived.

The protesters threw rocks at the National Guard. Shooting peaceful protesters is abhorrent. However, this was a lawless crowd which was led by Communist agitators. Once they started criminal acts like looting, arson or assaulting troops who are there in a law enforcement capacity this is a different story.

99 times out of 100 the best solution is policemen with nightsticks. Over time this story has been spun where the real criminality was forgotten.


Beak, I was sixteen when Kent State happened, so I remember the event clearly. I watched the footage on evening news on the day it occurred, so you cannae pull the wool over my eyes. Long-haired kids in hippy clothes were shot by short-haired kids in military uniforms, for what, civil disobedience? And you know something, I don't care if there were "Communist" agitators behind it. Go ahead, shoot them, but don't shoot blindly into a crowd of university students and then blame it on the victims. I don't care what your political leanings are, shooting children for public mischief is criminal.

Hell, in Vancouver, as we speak, there's been quite a bit of anti-Olympic rioting by blackshirted anarchists. They're kids, out breaking windows and causing property damage, should we shoot them?

beamish said...

Hell, in Vancouver, as we speak, there's been quite a bit of anti-Olympic rioting by blackshirted anarchists. They're kids, out breaking windows and causing property damage, should we shoot them?

Shooting anarchist kids and splattering their young brains on the pavement would be a tragedy that could only be mitigated somewhat by recording it on video so we can enjoy the footage on YouTube with popcorn over and over and over again.