Wednesday, August 03, 2005

Do Immigrants have obligations to their host countries

As a NYC resident I have the oportunity to interact with immigrants from every part of the globe. Most are greatful for the freedoms and opportunities the USA provides. Legal immigrants enrich our culture and most work hard. I have stated my affinity for various immigrant groups not limited to Cubans, Poles, Koreans, Chinese, Indians, Guyanese , Philipinnos and Dominicans. I have spent time in various ethnic enclaves and always felt welcome.

A good immigrant seeks nothing more then opportunity for his family and the SAME rights and duties as the rest of us. A good immigrant is loyal to his host country and does not blow up infrastructure. The NYC schools made little or no accomodation for previous immigrants. Jews did not get bent out of shape while readcing Shakespeare and the Cantubury tales. These were parts of the litterary tradition of our host culture . The immigrants as typified by my grandparents worked hard to learn English , provide for their families and loved this country. My Grandfather in particular had no use for Marxists who he called hypocrites and thieves. It did not matter that these thieves also claimed Jewish heritage. "A Communist in reality is not a Jew or American they are crooks and nuts." My grandmother on the other side also had zero use for these types " Who are these idiots who claim to speak for me. Let them get real jobs and live their own lives".

The question is if our culture offends you so much why do you remain here. If you feel no loyalty to this country then go home. There are scores of people who want the opportunity you have wasted. If you want to live in a theocracy rife with violence there are plenty of places Iran and the Kingdom of Corruption errr Saudi Arabia. No country is perfect and I am reminded daily of the goofs and flubs , most made in PC deferences. If you do not like the USA please go and don't let the door hit you as you leave.


bum from jersey said...

I agree with you but I want to take it one step further. If immigrants come here and prosper whether that be through economical, social, or educational gains, I think they should contribute back to the country that has helped them gain so much - the United States. Its great to see international students go to school in the United States because it demonstrates the worldy respect people have for our educational institutions but its sad to see those same people leave our country and go benefit theres. I understand that this not there home but at the same time we did so much for them, I think they should return the favor and do a little for us.

Always On Watch said...

Have you heard about the recent immigrant-day-laborers controversy in Herndon, Virginia?

Warren said...

" Do Immigrants have obligations to their host countries"

They most certainly do!

They are only guests until they become citizens and then they have the obligation of being a good citizen. The meeting of those obligations should be overseen by the judicious use of deportation.

Bum from Jersey, I disagree with you.
If they stay here, prosper and act as good citizens, that's payment enough. All boats rise in a tide and so does America.

I know former Germans, Frenchmen, Koreans, Chinese, Australians, Vietnamese, Nambians and two Brits that have become American citizens. They love this country and what it stands for and are far better citizens than 3/4 of the spoiled populace of this country. If you asked any of them if they were German, (et al), they would be the first to tell you, proudly; No! I am an American.

If they leave, they have paid for their schooling. End of contract, no debt owed. If I studied at a foreign university, I would feel no debt to the sponsoring country.

Warren said...

Always On Watch,
I heard about it on the Sean Hannity program.

Basically, the local activists and bleeding hearts want to build a "center", for undocumented (illegal) day workers.

Those people are out of their pea sized minds!

#1 These people are in this country illegally!

#2 These type of hand out programs actually increase the amount of illegals in a general area.

I was active in social outreach programs for over 9 years as a lay minister. (Bet that shocked a few people!)

One of the first things I found was that such projects created demand where there had never been demand before.

I'll do a blog entry on it when I get the chance. I've got too many irons in the fire right now. Maybe this weekend.

Neptune said...

The old saying is : When in Rome, you do as the Romans do.
Absolutely, immigrants have an obligation to the host country.

If I emigrate to Australia, I have an obligation to assimilate into the Austrlian culture.
That doesn't mean that I can't be proud of my heritage, but I don't have the right to impose my culture on the Aussies.

Always On Watch said...

A lay minister! How interesting!

I had things all lined up to do an immigration blog when the Michael Graham story broke, now morphed into a CAIR-against-Geoff-Metcalf story. I'm busy with that one right now.

Always On Watch said...

Being proud of one's heritage is one thing. Failure to assimilate is another.

As Neptune just pointed out.

The Herndon day-laborers hangout is full of criminals (not all the fellows, of course, but quite a few). My female friends in Herndon don't like even passing by the spot. Can't say that I blame them.

drummaster2001 said...

someone who comes to America should asslimilate to our culture and LEARN ENGLISH, just like in the early 20th century.

but nowadays, we don't seem to enforce this. how many times have you walked into a fast food joint, or any other public facility and seen something in Spanish. what about dialing an automated number and hear 'for English, press 1; para espanol, prima dos' and seen something in Spanish.

first, Congress needs to make English the official language, and second immigrants need to learn it.

beakerkin said...

Bum from Jersey and Captain Neptune
great to hear from you.

Always on the Watch there is a similar situation to the day laborers in Long Island and local talk radio is on the story. The problem is that these workers are often exploited and yes criminal.

Why can't a union build a hall but then you would have corruption and nepotism. The ideal would be a union hall but do not hold your breath that makes sense.

The immigrants in the NE I encounter are Dominicans, Cubans, Columbians , Ecuadorans and a few Peruvians and most struggle to learn English and most are bilingual. The problem is the activists who claim to speak for the community are speaking to different people then I do. Even in an industrial setting people learn English but it is a struggle at times.

unaha-closp said...

If you are an illegal why would you want to fit in? It is pretty obvious the Americans only want you there so you can do the shit jobs and then be sent back home if you fall ill or the economy tanks. There is no reason to assimilate if you are going to be sent back home again.

Only if you are a legal immigrant is there any reason to settle in.

Warren said...

The reason should be because we will bounce their ass out if they don't. We don't need any illegals reguardless of what some people think and more people are begining to realize it every day.

The largest source of capital for Mexico is oil, the second largest is money sent home by illegals. We don't owe them squat!

drummaster2001 said...

i hate to say it, but when it comes to illegals, you play with a double edged sword. we don't need them in the sense that they do take away work away from the unemployed who may want to do that work. there's also other things they take away from.

however, these illegals have outstanding work ethic. i have seen it first-hand. a town away from me, there is a huge illegal population, approx 99% from Mexico. whenever i pass, there is always about 10 different groups of 4-6 people who stand on the sidewalk waiting to get picked up for work. these guys make next to nothing doing back breaking work. they also do it everyday, sun-sun. that is one tough life.

if all these guys want to do is work and make $, i would undoubtedly want them citizens doing it legally. this should also give them more $, although you'll always get one to try and screw them over.

Wintermute said...

Most of the illegal immagrants in the US have tried to do it the legal way and been rejected because they don't speak good enough english, or because of biased IQ tests, or because they don't have any needed skills. Sometimes their only option for coming into the states (and often their only option for feeding their families, which is the motivation for constantly working long hours and sending it back home) is to do so illegally, with a group who does something like berry picking.

Many farmers depend on cheap labour in order to stay afloat, and because of labour laws (and American expectations) they cannot pay americans sufficiently low wages to make a profit. I think that these migrant workers fill a vital niche in our economy, and perhaps this migrant process should be endorsed and legalized for certain key areas of our economy where we consistently give out subsidies just to keep our fellow citizens or corporations in the black. This way we can tax the businesses instead of paying for them. If we put all that money (subsidies savings plus new business tax revenues) into education, our workforce would be able to fill more of the high paying, highly skilled jobs that typify the American ideal.

This would obviously not convey citizenship upon any of the workers, nor I think the need to naturalize and learn English (how many people do you interact with at a Berry farm vs at McDick's), and it would help our farmers stay afloat without needed as many government subsidies. So what if the workers send all their money home? Economically it would be equivalent to buying berries shipped from mexico, but it would benifit American farmers, reduce taxes (or at least farm subsidizing) for our farmers, increase tax revenues, and the Mexicans would pay the cost of shipping while being able to help out their families and their economy. Everyone wins, right.

I mean, we're doing it already, and in the farming instance we've been doing it for a while and its not really hurting anyone, its just driving down the cost of American fruit and forcing people into higher paying jobs. Nor need it be done everywhere nor wage capped. Perhaps struggling farmers might at least be permitted to use migrant workers to help keep themselves alive, and our farmers' families stomach's full. If some of these operations were permitted and know about authorities might also be freed up to search out immigrant importation in more nefarious circumstances (i.e. prostitution, child exploitation, gang members, etc.) and be granted the right to monitor people who would otherwise attempt to evade the eye of the police.

This idea could be extended to the garment industry and such as well. Being from NY I'm sure you can appreciate how much a small amount of legitimacy might help improve conditions for many exploited garment industry workers by allowing police the opportunity to search out the worst of the human importers. The ability to tax even the businesses themselves would be great for the economy, and marketing opportunities seem fantastic. Imagine "free trade black market clothing." Or something like "when you buy these berries you are helping feed starving children." The hippies would go nuts for this stuff, and knowing that it was legitimate many people of lower incomes would likely pay the slightly higher price rather than risk buying or bother seeking out actual black market clothing. "Why not?" I ask.