Saturday, April 19, 2008

Not Quite

Long term readers know of my respect for religious people. My basic view is that government should stay out of the pulpit unless public safety is involved.

Long term readers also know I despise utopians of all stripes Red, Green or Anarchist freaks. Theocracy is a dreadful idea that falls into the realm of stupidity.

Many of you read the familiar Kahanist sites. These well meaning imbeciles want to create a Jewish
version of Iran. If the state of Israel ever transformed into the hateful type of "Torah" state advocated by the Kahane crowd I would no longer support it.

The Kahane crowd has an almost sick obsession with the laws regarding sexual behavior. Even those of us who take the Bible literally would not like to see adulters, masturbators, gays and people who have sex out of wedlock flogged. The same crowd wants to dictate what I eat, whom I sleep with and how I pray. Of course this madness would require thugs like the state of Iran.

The opinions of the Kahane crowd are that of an inconsequential minority of freaks that is statistically irrelevant even within the modern Orthodox community.

The realm of utopia is for the next life. Kahanists are well intentioned fools who are almost as reality challenged as their evil communist peers.


Z said...

These Kahanists think they're going to make a theocracy of Israel, a land where 90% of the Jews there don't consider themselves religious?

The Merry Widow said...

Z-That's the deal. They are the equivalent of the white supremasists here in the states.
And they support the 7 Noahide Laws movement. Which reduces gentiles to second class(dhimmi) status. And has already destroyed churches here in the states(3 southern baptist churches left worshipping the Lord Jesus Christ, trampled HIS Blood as it were).
Here is a link to what they believe for Christians.
Beaker-ALL "u"topian groups are based on the perfectability of man in this lifetime(by force in the end, and it's ALL about behavior, not the heart), but we are fallen people living in a fallen's not going to happen by our efforts, ever. No matter the good intentions of the founders(the road to Hell is paved with "good intentions")!
Good morning, G*D bless and Maranatha!


beakerkin said...


For me the reality is simpler. Man is
potentially weak and any elevation of man to God or creation of a perfect society endangers us all.

Do note Kahanists will play nice with
communists when expedient. A strong supporter of Israel who says that theocracy is dangerous is a more powerful foe.

Anonymous said...

Nothing will corrupt a good religion faster than an infusion of "state power". You can't FORCE people to move towards the good. They've got to "want it", or the first moment everyone's back is turned they'll be violating its' MOST scared tenants.

The Pagan Temple said...

In other words they seem to want to return to the time chronicled in the Book of Judges, if I understand correctly. That was a theocracy, more or less. The Davidic Dynasty might also be considered a theocracy, though it led to a diminishing of the powers of the Judges, which I take to be an early form of the Sanhedrin.

I don't think you have anything to worry about, for now. The only way I can see that type of movement getting a real foothold within Israel would be if there was some profound disaster of epic proportions, especially involving a terrorist assault on the scale of 9/11. Even then, it would be unlikely to last.

What would worry me most would be the potential of a small elite cadre of insiders within the movement actively working to instigate such an attack in order to better further their cause.

I just about guarantee you there have been some Kahanists who have at least entertained the thought.

beakerkin said...


The Jewish people have nothing to fear from Kahanists. Their propensity towards violence is nil compared with Jihadis and Commies.

The worst thing they do is give a moral equivalency argument that is mute. On their worst day the Kahanist
imbeciles are not even close to Hezbollah.

The Pagan Temple said...

That's the worse thing they do NOW. If they were ever to acquire power you would find them capable of doing much more. They would be no different than the Ayotollahs of Iran. Perhaps most of them are not like that, but the ones who would find their way to power would be, and the followers would still support them, or at the last shut up and go along.

Aren't these pretty much the same kind of people that assassinated the Israeli Prime Minister a few years back? Rabin, I think it was?

Beamish said...

I look at it this way - no Kahanist has ever called for the destruction of my nation and the death of my people.

The government which governs least governs best, so I doubt I'd find comfort under a political system that would find a bacon cheeseburger a threat to national security.

But I can think of thousands of political and religious movements I'd willingly live under Kahanism to avoid.

Kahanists are mostly harmless.

beakerkin said...

Mr B

We agree that Kahanists are mostly harmless. They really don't care how you live as you are not Jewish.

The day any Kahanists tries to get the KFC out of my hand there will be a brawl. I would have better off without Northwind.


MZ had called for the asassination
of Olmert. This is something we did
not even say here about Arafat.

Iran is the model of the insanity.
Unlike Muslims there are no hordes of Jews wanting to place anyone under Jewish theological law.

Ducky's here said...

Well, so Jews in Israel have the same problem with Fundamentalists as Muslims have with wahabists.

Beamish said...

Well, I can at least understand the exasperation with Olmert in Israel - it's just like any other free society which succumbs to placing a leftist in a position of power. Given that the number one priority of all leftists (without exception) is to dedicate significant tracts of time towards the goal of convincing rational people that all leftists are morons (I've still not discovered why a leftist finds it important that his status as an imbecile be widely acknowledged), it's easy to understand why an Israel free of Olmert would be desirable. An Earth free of Olmert would prevent a future occurance of Olmert in charge of Israel, but that can be done without an assassination.

Right wingers usually don't resort to assassination though, historically. It's always the left behind political assassination - what the left lacks in intellect, it more than makes up for in violent tendencies.

QunQat said...


show me the Fundamentalists in Israel who are blowing themselves up to kill others and promote their warped vision of Heaven!!



The Pagan Temple said...

Even if the Kahanists were as bad as the Wahabists and other Jihadis, the numbers aren't the same. Fundamentalist Jihadis and their supporters make up roughly twenty percent (at the very least) of the Muslim population.

What percentage of Israelis/Jews are Kahanists or of similar mindset? I am guessing two or three percent at the very most.

Once you figure into the equation the fact that Muslims make up more than a billion people, and Jews make up (I am guessing here) two or three percent of that total at the most worldwide, you have to assume the Kahanists are a blip on the radar screen by comparison.

I think I would prefer to be surrounded by Kahanists than Wahabists any day, but hey, that's just me.

At least Jews have some fun holidays, like Purim.