Tuesday, April 04, 2006

Bat Yeaor's point

Bat Yeor describes Islam as a religious justification of a nomadic lifestyle. Islams initiall adherents Arabs were nomads with a predatory lifestyle. They would conduct a series of raids mostly on farmers and small villagers. The initial appeal of Islam was the goods, slaves and power the religion provided. The raids were an established pattern of theft that had preceded Islam.

The most notable of Islam's early adherents were also nomadic warlike people. The Turks were a warlike nomadic people from the plains of Central Asia. The Berbers were North African nomads attracted by the booty and plunder .

The nomads destroyed and plundered wherever they went. Whole villages fled to mountainous regions where the nomadic tactics were less sucsessful. However the oppressive taxation of its most productive population led to its near collapse. The Nomadic Mongols invaded and conquered Baghdad. Interestingly Mongols invasions are still depecticed as a savage horde plundering and pillaging. This is exactly what Muslims did for centuries but the PC left obscures the facts.

Thus today we have Islamic traditionalist still attempting to colonize , convert and lord over the rest of us. I read a quote about three months ago , a French Muslim wanted an end to police presence in the occupied territories. Most of us think that this is yet another call for Israel to leave the West Bank. This was a call for French police to leave sections of France.

The Islamo conquest works in a simple fashion. Excess population emigrates to adjacent areas and first petitions for recognition. When a critical mass is reached they begin to riot. When the riots and disorder start the locals emigrate. Emigration, lawlessness and terror are part of the plan to conquer the globe.

The problem is compounded by the fact that Islam is not the basis for a modern economy. Civilization depends on law and order and a Jim Crow system of theft and rampant violence is not compatible with a modern economy. India and China are making huge strides and are superpowers. This is because they are not hindered by a system of governance based upon justifying the lifestyle of nomads 1400 years ago.

Beamish in 08, Ducky back to the library and 167 a ratings 0

32 comments:

Anonymous said...

Very good piece beak! I forget where I read it, but "excess" populations are generally the cause of ALL wars... and the scenario I remeber had the populations splitting into "thirds", the younger and generally "landless" third used to conquer and invade new lands and the "remaining" two-thirds splitting the lands vacated by the emigrating third. Does border control start to sound a little "more" or "less" desirable given this fact, for if one "enforces" their borders, one needs to be prepared for "war".

And perhaps this is why "open border" democracies do not typically go to war with one another... the population pressures are less "accute" (at least at first).

-FJ

Anonymous said...

I wanna say it was from Chapter 3 of Thomas Malthus' "Essay on Population", but it could have been Machiavelli... hmmm.

-FJ

Mr. Ducky said...

Islam had it's roots in a nomadic population (just like judaism). Hardly a revelation. Are there other reasons to waste time with B'at Shit?

Odd that you mention China. They have done more to eliminate poverty than we have in the last 50 years. That puts us in the bind of rethinking democracy as a necessity for development.

beakerkin said...

Ducky

China has reduced poverty by tossing Marx in the waste basket.

Judaism does not have a set of Jim Crow laws .Nor does judaism speak of selling the children of conquered nations into slavery or Janissary corps. Nor does Judaism ever mention global conquest or comedic attempts to put talmudic law on non believers.

Mr. Ducky said...

Beak, I mentioned democracy (vs. communism). I was talking about the POLITICAL system, not the economic system.

When are you right wingers going to be able to hold simultaneous ideas and seperate the two?

I do remember God telling the children of Israel to kill the women and children of defeated enemies...and slavery is prominent in the Old testament. When they got the chance, jews were no different than other nomads.

Jason_Pappas said...

That puts us in the bind of rethinking democracy as a necessity for development.

Seems I've heard that before ... circa 1980 in Chile. There, too, free market reforms help to usher in good economic times. People asked the same question the Duckman just asked back then. Perhaps, you’ll want to throw in the UAE … another prosperous locale with no democracy. Add Singapore!

Of course, dictatorships have been able to mimic, for a limited time, the functioning of a liberal economic system. But I wouldn't take that as proof-of-concept.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

When are you right wingers going to be able to hold simultaneous ideas and seperate the two?

When leftists can adequately make a distinction between their ideas and what most people call sheer stupidity?

Mr. Ducky said...

Sorry Jason, have to deal with this (especially looking at Chile's willingness to join the rest of the South American left) but China has raised more people out of poverty in the last fifty years than the rest of the world combined.

Democracy wasn't a part of that solution(the issue is democracy, not capitalism). Most emerging economies don't embrace democracy and we should be circumspect about pushing the idea too hard.

Capitalism is needed to develop economies. It can mutate later.

beakerkin said...

Ducky do you want to seriously compare the Old Testament with Child abductions, Jannisaries and a Jim Crow systems.

Slavery was a constant human condition. The Old Testament was the first to describe any rights for slaves.

As far as Communism goes the Political and Economic legacy are disasters.

It would also be nice if you would spend the time to read the authors before rendering judgement on them.
You have admitedly not read any of Yeors work so your critique is at best second hand.

Mr. Ducky said...

Jason, about Chile. They have had reasonable growth although their per capita is lower than Argentina and just somewhat higher than Brazil, they have high unemployment like most of South America, the privatized Social Security has been a failure and they are moving left.

Why do the Randoids grasp so desperately at this straw when they should be coming to grips with the failure of laissez-faire in the last half of the 19th century and its resulting world devestation in WW I?

Mr. Ducky said...

Beak what the hell are you talking about? Child abductions? What the hell is that? Muslim men snatching their children?

Look at a freakin' milk carton. Happens all the time here.

Jannissaries were Turkish soldiers. Should we read B'at Shit to find out that the Ottamans had an elite guard that was disbanded 150 years ago? Are you on crack?

Jim Crow? What are you talking about? The last major jim crow was South African apartheid which the state of Israel enhanced by selling sophisticated weaponry to the South African apartheid goverment.

Next you are going to tell me that arabs are "equal citizens" in Israel and don't comprise the vast majority of the 25% of Israelis below the poverty line (Israeli economy needs to get back to its socialist roots...NuttyYahoo destroyed it).


Now so what? So you find lots of problems with muslim culture. Big fucking deal. Here's the flash...all cultures have problems...there are still many women being burned in dowery squabbles in India. So you like to pull your pud and focus on islam. So what?

Do you ever have a positive idea or are you just wallowing in the B'at Shit? What's the plan, Beak. You don't like Islam and you are frightened of ragheads. Why should anyone take notice of your particular paranoia?

beakerkin said...

Ducky you are quite ignorant of how the Jannisaries were formed.
Start reading Coptic websites the practice of abducting women and children still occur today.

The conditions that Muslim forced Jews, Christians and others to live under was far worse then Jim Crow. The opression of these groups continue today.

Arabs have zero claim to Israel and are treated much better then Jews were treated historically under Islam.

How do you offer critique of writer you have not bothered to read ?

Jason_Pappas said...

Why do the Randoids grasp so desperately at this straw when they should be coming to grips with the failure of laissez-faire in the last half of the 19th century and its resulting world devestation in WW I?

What on earth are you talking about? Bismark didn’t advocate laissez-faire but was innovator of the welfare state (his motivations are another matter.) Germany, which together and autocratic Austria-Hungary were the culprits in WWI. English, which had started to deviate from laissez-faire but was far being Germany in that respect, enter the war next and America, the most laissez-faire, only entered the war towards the end. And it was the least laissez-faire President who did that: Wilson. And it was a grave mistake to do so.

Germany and Austria (the birth places of Marx and Hitler respectively) were leaders in big government. And big war! Try again Ducky.

Mad Zionist said...

I'm baaaack. The web fiasco has been resolved. My new website is http://www.madzionist.blogspot.com,and, mercifully, all my archives have been recovered at the original site, www.madzionistblogoff.blogspot.com

WHEW! Also, I have a new article posted at the new website, for those of you who give a crap!

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

...China has raised more people out of poverty in the last fifty years than the rest of the world combined.

And if you want to see them, you'll need a shovel. Not that the dead complain too much about cash flow.

"China has raised more people out of poverty..."

{The average Chinese citizen nets $6,200 a year.}

This is why leftists should stick to finessing out the finer artistic points of dung sculptures and leave life-affecting decisions to intellectuals.

Jason_Pappas said...

China has raised more people out of poverty...

Ducky, the sly one, didn’t say a higher percentage of people! Japan and Germany, after WWII, went from dire poverty to widespread wealth in a generation.

I do agree with Ducky on one matter. Modernization isn’t linear in the sense that some economic gains may come before civil rights in some case while in others civil liberties may come first. However, property rights, the rule of law, civil liberties, and a constitutionally-limited parliamentary system is required to secure a decent society in the long-run. Sooner or later the contradiction between economic liberty and political liberty must be resolved.

Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Now so what? So you find lots of problems with muslim culture. Big fucking deal. Here's the flash...all cultures have problems...there are still many women being burned in dowery squabbles in India. So you like to pull your pud and focus on islam. So what?

How can you ask India to abandon burning women in dowery squabbles when you can't even ask Islamic countries to stop glorifying terrorist suicide bombers as "martyrs" and calling for the extermination of entire ethnic groups?

Eventually you have to stop "pulling your pud" and focusing on finding ways to justify inaction with moral equivalence fallacies, grow up (which entails abandoning leftism), and discover that your head is not just a hat rack.

nanc said...

i give a crap, madze...but i never under any circumstances take any!

Mad Zionist said...

Take a laxitive, nanc. You gotta be seriously backed up by now.

Iran Watch said...

Good to see somebody know who the Berbers were. Most Algerians claim to be Arab, but in reality the majority of their population is made up from the Berbers.
As for the Chinese, are you talking about percentage of the population or actual numbers ducky?

Warren said...

Ducky, once again you show your total ignorance and make pronouncements about something you know less than nothing about!

I'm going to check right now.

Yep! I thought so.

The first google link for "Janissaries", spells it out in words that even a dim wit should be able to understand.

They were conscripts, slaves taken as children from non-Muslims, mostly Christians.

Hell, I'm not going to type all this out for a meat head.

C/P from wikipedia:

"The first Janissary units comprised war captives and slaves. After the 1380s Sultan Selim I filled their ranks with the results of taxation in human form called devshirmeh. The sultans men would conscript as a form of tax in -human- kind a number of non-Muslim, usually Christian, boys – at first at random, later, by strict selection and take them to be trained. In later centuries they appear to have favored essentially Greeks and Albanians (who also supplied many gendarmes). Usually they would select about one in five boys of ages seven to fourteen but the numbers could be changed to correspond with the need for soldiers. Later they would extend the devshirmeh to other Balkan countries. Local residents could hardly be expected to appreciate the custom, although there is evidence that some Christians sought to have their children recruited as a way to gain social advancement. In some cases bribes were given and ages were lied about.

Janissaries trained under strict discipline with hard labour and in practically monastic conditions in acemi oglan schools, where they were expected to remain celibate and were forcibly converted to Islam. All did, as Christians were not allowed to bear arms in the Ottoman Empire until the 19th century. For all practical purposes, Janissaries belonged to the Sultan. Unlike free Muslims, they were expressly forbidden to wear beards (a Muslim custom), only a moustache. Janissaries were taught to consider the corps as their home and family and the Sultan as their de facto father. Only those who proved strong enough earned the rank of a true Janissary at the age of twenty four to twenty five. The regiment inherited the property of dead Janissaries.
"

Ducky you are consistently outrageously wrong that you must be suffering from "Cliff Clavin Disease"! You are a pompous ass of the worse stripe, an ignorant one.

MissingLink said...

Tatars were very keen on taking young boys into 'jasyr' from the states not submitted into Islam (mostly Polish, Hungarian and Russian, Georgian kingdoms)as the Ottomans paid handsomly for such slaves.
Janissaries, who depended only on Sultan, protected him from his own subjects (no local loyalties) as well as soldiers in military expantion.

Additionally the Ottomans simply took their "conscripts" from all those non-Muslim families who lived under Islam as dhimmis mostly from the Balkans and later Caucasus).
These forceful conscriptions resulted in massive multilation of infant boys performed by the parents to avoid this ordeal.

Grown up male slaves weere used to power the Ottoman and Berber fleets (oars not sails were used by their navy as well pirate ships) and worked in mines.

Young females became sex slaves.

The Knights of Malta tried to track and buy out Christan slaves from their Muslim owners but usually only the most prominent prisoners could return home.

American Crusader said...

Islam was truly a religion born in violence. Misogyny, slavery, child abuse, thievery and plenty of other crimes are all practice by "good" Muslim

nanc said...

O.T. - but, beak i'm about to die laughing at the fact that sneezle is calling you a crazy buzzard at fpm!

okay - carry on.

Jason_Pappas said...

AC sums it up. Islam is congenitally and intrinsically vicious.

Christianity was a faith believing the end was near but had to cope with reality they weren’t prepared for. Communism was a dream gone bad and lasted until it fell of its own weight. But Islam was created by thugs who plundered and oppressed on principle, from year one (their calendar), and by design.

beakerkin said...

Nanc

Trolls are natural predators but they do not like being the hunted.
The Weasel , Meathead and Hank like to stalk and insult people but get upset when the favor is returned. Hank Snow is a crybaby upset over the Starbucks Revolutionary bit that is mild.

Meathead is a fraud and is crying and the Weasel is just a Psycho crybaby. I bor him because every time he tangles with me he gets a black eye.

nanc said...

p.s. and O.T. - orangeducks has a new and interesting article at autonomist.

nanc said...

yeah, well soybean is now implying you are insane at the top of the thread - don't worry i think sneezle has come to your rescue!

nanc said...

that's it - i am now taking an official break from fpm! either that or i'm about to be banned...again! i'm running out of e-mail addresses. that soybean is a condescending little fool and i won't be talked to that way by the enemy!

DuWayne Brayton said...


Sorry Jason, have to deal with this (especially looking at Chile's willingness to join the rest of the South American left) but China has raised more people out of poverty in the last fifty years than the rest of the world combined.



Sorry if this has been mentioned already - to long a thread to read closely before bed. China has lifted so many out of poverty (not bloody far mind) because they have so friggin many. Also, they count it moving out of "poverty" if they're one of the folks that is given a job that provides food, shelter and pennies a week in pay. The same person being very closely restricted to a very small area, outside said area they have absolutely no freedom of movement. Sounds like a bloody fine life to me. . .

That said, there is not a culture on this planet that has not followed those exact same rules at some point or another. Many still do, even in this country, they just call it the rules of the business world.

Always On Watch said...

Crusader: Islam was truly a religion born in violence. Misogyny, slavery, child abuse, thievery and plenty of other crimes are all practice by "good" Muslim

The above bears repeating. While many ideologies get bastardized into violence, Islam was born as a hate-filled ideology. Sure, MTP started off with some conciliatory hallucinations, but once he went to Medina, the gloves were off.

Always On Watch said...

We who are not Muslims should carefully listen to those who have lived under the boot of Islam. Bat Ye'or is one of those who can give us the window into the reality which we'd much rather turn away from.