The left is forever in denial about the true role of Communists in WW2. The alleged non agression pact was certainly not benign if you were in western Poland or the Baltic States. Stalin divided up Poland in a treaty with the Nazis.
Hitler then turned on his ally and invaded the Soviet Union. American Commies were pro Peace and did a 180 after their sacred murderous state got invaded. The Commies then carried out the Katyn Massacre and blamed the Nazis.
The myth of the benign role of the heroic USSR in WW2 is seldom discussed by the left. When the subject is brought up one can hear a pin drop.
The rationale among the left is it is better to kill by class then race. Speaking of ethnic cleansing does anyone remember where the good old commies sent the Tartars. This is just one of the minor details the left keeps on forgeting.
100,000,000 dead and still counting . What a stagering accomplishment of the far left
but what does one do for an encore.
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Yes, the Commies and their fellow travelers made 180 turns from first advocating a Popular Front to help England, France and Russia, to then labeling England warmongers (after the Pack) to finally calling for our intervention on the side of USSR (after Hitler invaded Russia.) Some Communist sympathizers woke-up after the Pack but very few. For some the final straw was Russia's invasion of Finland. Clearly innocent and totally non-strategic, this showed that Stalin was another Hitler (but only for some.)
Note: see "Liberals and Communism" by Frank E. Warren.
Most of the public-school text omit the fact presented here. Such has been the case for decades now.
Jason Pappas
Get your facts straight, man. Hitler invaded Russia in June of 1941, the Russians never asked for our help. The lend-lease agreement (to help the British, Russians and French) was enacted in October of 1941, 4 months after the invasion of Russia. Finland was invaded by Russia the first time (the Winter War) in November 1939, 4 Months later the Finnish signed a treaty. In 1941 the Finnish allowed the Germans to station troops and supplies in Northern Finland to assist them in the invasion of Russia, debunking your statement that the Finnish were “ Clearly innocent and totally non-strategic”. Soon afterwards the Russians bombed Finland in retaliation and soon the second war with Russia began (the Continuation War) then in September 1944 the Finnish surrendered.
Jason Pappas,
And by the way, the Americans did not enter WW II because Hitler invaded Russia; it was because the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, some 6 months after Hitler invaded Russia.
You're wrong Sanitizer, we were helping the USSR with supplies before Hitler declared war on America. Our support for the allies before Pearl Harbor was part of the motivation for Hitler's declaration.
But my point was about the Communist and their sympathizers. As part of the Popular Front they supported a coalition with the USSR but changed after the Pact. At that point they demonized England and France as warmongers – and they then opposed our support of those country’s war effort. After Hitler invaded Russia, they changed again. That’s the main point. Deal with it!
Finland figured more than the Pact for many, when it came to facing the Soviet threat. Many in the New Republic, who rationalized way Stalin’s crimes and supported the Popular Front were more shocked by Russia’s invasion of Finland than the Pact. See Frank E. Warren’s Liberal’s and Communism.
Sanitizer, no one said Americans entered WW2 because Hitler invaded Russia.
What was said was that American Communists Socialists and fellow travelers were firmly against American involvement in WW2 until Hitler invaded Russia. Miraciously, overnight, Hitler became a monster.
The Russian/Germany Nonaggression Treaty, made it immediately clear that in spite of all peace efforts, war had become unavoidable and that there was a serious danger that Poland would be invaded from two sides. Therefore when Britain signed her final Agreement of Mutual Assistance with Poland it was specified in a secret protocol that immediate "support and assistance" were to be given only against Germany. But we know today that the German-Russian treaty was also accompanied by a secret protocol which outlined in advance the partition of Poland and all the rest of East Central Europe into "spheres of influence". Furthermore, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, and Rumanian Bessarabia were placed in the Russian sphere of influence, while Germany claimed only Lithuania and declared her disinterest in South East Europe.
Of course the Nonagression Treaty was actually a pact among thieves. For 21 months the eastern part of Poland was under Russian occupation and Sovietization. In October 1939, elections under the Soviet system, (prepared for by mass arrests and executions), were held and the delegates to the local Soviet were forced to apply for incorporation into the Soviet Union, the southern part of the invaded territory being annexed by Ukrain the northern part by the Byelorussian Soviet Republic. There followed mass deportations to distant parts of the U.S.S.R. It is impossible to determine the number of victims. Besides the particularly persecuted Poles, there were many Jews as well as Ukrainian leaders. The number probably exceeded 1 1/2 million, all of whom were used as forced labor under conditions of starvation and utmost misery.
Remember, during this entire period of time when good old "Uncle Joe" Stalin, was making out like a bandit and furthering his goal of universal Communism, murdering anyone that "resisted liberation". Our own home grown traitors were proclaiming their pacifisism and non-interventionist BS.
As soon as word of operation Barbarossa reached these "pacifists and non-interventionists", they howled for Nazi blood.
Finland:
It is ridiculousious to think of Finland as anything other than a pawn in the whole sorid affair.
A visit by Foreign Commissar Molotov to Berlin in Nov. 1940, produced the first signs of trouble between Germany and the USSR. The purpose of the visit was to discuss the Soviet Union's joining the Axis powers in a four-power alliance.
Molotov came armed with demands and complaints. He wanted to know whether Germany intended to honor treaty obligations with respect to Finland. Lately, (in their opinion), the Germans had shown too great of an interest in that nation and the Soviet Union intended to intervene there as it had in the Baltic states. The Russians also wanted bases in Bulgaria and control of the Dardanelles. Hitler, spoke of Soviet expansion to the east, (into India for instance), and he issued a thinly veiled warning that he would not tolerate further Soviet encroachments in Europe. Concerning Finland, he stated that any new disturbance in the Baltic area would place a heavy strain on German-Soviet relations. The meeting had a definite effect on both partners. The Russians continued to maneuver diplomatically but carefully avoided overt acts. Hitler was thoroughly annoyed at the Russians' display of grasping independence, and he believed that they would not have dared to assert themselves as they had without a secret agreement with the British.
Clearly, even though Finland had deposits of copper and nickel, the Soviets were just trying to take, their already agreed upon, spoils.
Manchester Guardian (1st December, 1939)
Russia invaded Finland early yesterday morning, and at once began to try to enforce submission by air attacks.
The Finnish Government resigned early this morning. It is reported from Copenhagen that Dr. Tanner, the Finnish Finance Minister, who was one of the Finnish delegates to Moscow, will form a new Government to open negotiations with Russia.
News of the resignation came after the Russian threat, broadcast from Moscow, that unless Finland surrendered by three o'clock this morning Helsinki would be completely destroyed.
A representative of the United States Legation in Helsinki sent the information of the Government's resignation to the American Embassy in Moscow, which is expected to communicate with the Kremlin.
M. Erkko, the Finnish Foreign Minster, in a broadcast to the United States last night, said "We remain ready to work for a solution of the dispute by conciliation."
The Soviet Government yesterday rejected the United States' offer of its good offices in settling the dispute; the Soviet Government did not think they were needed. Finland accepted the offer.
The invasion of Finland without any declaration of war has cause the greatest indignation throughout the world, especially in other Scandinavian countries and in the United States, Italy, and Spain. In the House of Commons yesterday Mr. Chamberlain made a statement on the invasion.
You are making a causal fallacy. It is clear that Finland was innocent of intent and any strategicigic value of Finland was secondary to Soviet expansionism and the tactical considerations of the Germans. In short, Finland became a piece of meat fought over between the mad dogs of Germany and Russia.
It is rude to demand that others correct their facts before you fully know them yourself.
I hate to interrupt the scintillating historical discussion here, but my blog is starting to attract some real live stinky moonbats, in case anyone wants to pump a few rounds into the stomach-turning anarcho-leftist moral equivalency "Why can't we be friends with Osama Bin Laden" crowd (thanks AOW and Mustang for dropping by). It's on my "Leftist solution to terrorism" spoof thread.
Anyway, back on the Beakmeister's topic, Victor Davis Hanson pretty much nailed this subject down a couple of months ago here.
I'm the Mad Linker today, hehe.
Mr. Beamish,
Your moonbats are fun! At long last, you don't have to endure the tedium of looking for them.
I wish I felt better and could post more comments. But you're having a great time, I can see. Plus, your responses are outstanding.
Thanks Warren for the details. I didn’t have time to look them up and relied on memory. It looks like Sanitizer still can’t come to grips with the flip-flop of the 1930’s leftists. That he’d want to defend them is very telling.
Mr. Pappas,
I too didn't have the time to look it up. I didn't know it would be a tag team effort to trump me, so congratulations to you and Warren. I bid you adieu as I have time to serve and will not be back for a long while. Good bye to all and have fun.
Sanitizer, "time to serve" sounds ominous. I wish you well regardless.
Jason,
You are most welcome.
I would not have know but I heard Barry Farber comment about the bravery of Finland in the face of the Red Army. I looked it up pursuant to some research I was doing on the nature of the German/Russian non-aggression pact.
Fabulous comments and great post, Beak. Thanks Warren -- I learned a lot!!
mr. ducky,
Hitler wrote about the inevitable conflict with Russia in "Mein Kampf". Any ground based military campaign against Russia
would by necessity have to be completed before the onset of winter.
Operation Barbarossa, didn't begin until a year and a half after the Russian Finnish war. If you are sure that your enemy is weak and incompetent, you do not give him a year and a half to improve.
" Gee Warren, you just discovering the Russo-Finish war? "
No, I just didn't know/wasn't interested in the details.
And ducky, that 100,000,000 includes all Communist governments, not just the USSR.
I'll make you a deal, don't criticize my spelling and I won't criticize yours.
I'm not the spelling police.
Ducky
Lets get this straight the one who is full of shit is you. Communists kill and deport scores of MUSLIMS and it peachy. Your morality becomes selective when it comes to the joooooooos. As far as the Soviet vermin go they also mistreated jooooos , Balts and assorted other people.
Now as far as Communism goes if you wish to defend 100,000,000 dead aided and abetted by fellow travelers like yourself be my guest.
I just thought of something funny. Over on my blog we're driving little Wintermute absolutely moonbatty in our little ignorant uncritical ethnocentric rut of capitalism fanatics as he searches in vain looking for the "beautiful cultures" destroyed by "capitalism" and the list of cultures that leaped forward once they starting giving in to the demands of Islamofascism. And over here, you're asking what good all the revolutionary Marxists ever did for Muslims anywhere.
It's like pulling the wings off of lies.
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