It is four years later and the American family is still united in our oposition to Jihadist nuts. Our lives have changed over that time. Some of us bear horrible memories caused by your twisted peverse religious views of heaven as a brothel. Yet I will proclaim it loud and clear for you jihadis and far left Communazis. I am an American freedom is my birth right and I live it each and every day. You and your Jihadi and Commie allies will never make me submit or change my ways. You have picked a fight with the wrong people.
I want to differentiate between patriotic liberals like B and whatever Justin Morris calls himself at any given moment from 167 and other anti American far left insane nuts. It is okay to disagree with the Iraq war or administation policies. This is our right as Americans.
However the second one goes into insane Chomskyite or Zinn delusions about America as the sole force of evil in the world you have left the American Family. Thus when idiots talk of Jooooish cabals or zionist media or insane consipracies you have left the American family. 167 is not American and at last glance had more in common with
earthworms then with humans.
B and I agree on social policies more then many of you would acknowledge . However on the war on Terror and Iraq we differ but seek different routes to the same goal.
I also will never allow myself to stand near a Commie , David Duke or any other people that do not share my heritage. The key point is that B and I disagree on the specific route to a safer country but it is a common desire.
I no longer see Liberalism as a credible ideology. John Kerry is a portrait of what is wrong with the Democrats. He talks like Sgt. York but did little or nothing in Vietnam and spent 33 years embelishing his record. He then goes to meet with the VC in Paris while still in the Naval Reserve an act that should have put him in Leavenworth. He forms a Communist organization and his cofounder Al Hubbard is a fake Vietnam Veteran who was a Communist but never was in Vietnam or flew a plane he loaded them. His injuries were from playing basketball in Hoboken. Kerry worked with the man every day and never knew he was a Commie or a fraud. Kerry holds the thoroughly discredited Wintersoldier hearings replette with fake testimony. Then Kerry runs to be Daniel Ortega's personal PR man in DC. He also signs on to the wacky
nuclear freeze movement. Sadly nobody even questions him on these things. Senator when did you know Al Hubbard was a Commie who never was in Vietnam. Then you have Senator Harkin who is the same nutty story. Has there ever been a Communist that John Conyers or Charles Rangel cried about 1/10 as much as they cry about Bush. Decent liberals do not collaberate with Communists or fellow travelers. They know the history and blood on the hands of the far left.
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26 comments:
John Kerry should spend more time in Massachusetts entertaining the locals like Ted Kennedy does with his Hip Flask Museum.
I still believe in liberalism. Just not the modern "progressive" kind. I like the old fashioned Isaiah Berlin kind. A kind actually founded upon "reason" and "careful thought", not the emotion laden secular religion of 60's era flower children.
-FJ
Beak,
I just love this title and the first paragraph!
Beak Said:"I want to differentiate between patriotic liberals like B and whatever Justin Morris calls himself at any given moment"
Beak just so you will know and not have to wonder. At any given moment I call myself an American. I dont go looking for little cliche names to fit in ie: liberal,conservative,moderate or any other name out there.
Each has their story and as long as this country has freedom of speech protected by the Constitution they all have the right to express their thoughts no matter if you or I dont like what they say.
That is the American way.
FJ,
Seems to me that the flower children have taken over liberalism. Brain damage?
And as BB said, let's not forget Tk and his Hip Flask Museum. More brain damage?
It's getting harder and harder to find liberals with integrity.
Justin
First of all I want to correct a misperception on your part you nor Rob was ever considered an enemy at any time by me. This blog has never practiced censorship of any kind unlike your infamous friend, You should have read enough post where there is 100% personal attacks and I leave them standing. Whatever you are I consider you a Patriot but your judgement has been slightly off.
While you hyperventilated about Mr Beamish and Jasons alegedly anti Muslim post you say zero about the anti semitic and American blatherings of 167 whose site you do post on.
Lets see he compared Bush to Hitler and you said 0 . He regularly talks about Joooish cabals and Israel instigating the war in Iraq and you say 0. He even uses a term that David Duke uses Zionist media and you say zero. Justin I may not agree with you but I always respected your integrity but you have come up short.
B
I live in NYC and have daily contact with liberals and Comunists and know the difference.
If you look in the Disgruntled Chemists archives you will see 167 actualy use the line true Communism has never been tried yet.
I have twenty plus years of experience with the real article in NYC in Union Square. I know the lingo and the arguments better then the real commies.
Here is my problem with patriotic liberals. Making common alliances with groups like Code Pink ,Answer and United foor Peace and Justice discredits liberals.
Patriotic liberals want a safer country and so do the rest of us.
However the above groups want to overthrow Capatalism and are more concerned with aiding and abeting Jihadist with whom they share many beliefs mainly totalkitarianism.
B
Point of order I have never compared or claimed that you or partiotic liberals want to overthrow Capitalism. I do live in NYC and there are real Communists galore around my home on 14th street. I do know the profound differences between liberals and Communists. However liberals do themselves untold damage when allowing Communists into their ranks. Remember the old adage the enemy of my enemy is not my friend.
Respectfuly you are wrong about religious CHRISTIAN conservatives.
Communists and Jihadists both want to rule the world. Communists and Jihadists divide the world into spheres and classes. Communists and Jihadist stifle freedom of expression. Communists and Jihadists practice moral relatism thus shooting school kids in the back and starving peasants for their own good is morally sanctioned. Communists and Jihadist do not respect private property a jihadist may steal from an unbeliever in practice. Communism has always been theft with good PR in reality. Truth is whatever the party tells you or whatever the mullahs say.
The failure of Progressives is that by sanitizing Jihadists they are aligning with a group that has only marginaly a better record on human rights then there own disaster.
Yet liberals never challenge a Communist if and when they do they become Rudy Republicans.
I am afraid it is you that has come up short on integrety my friend you accuse me of posting on a site I have not even visited in months let alone posted on. Since I dont know who 167 is I am only assuming you are talking about the recidivist. The only site outside of these two posts on yours is ours.
You seem to want to use my name to suit some purpose you have but lets get the records straight. I still read your site because you do have plenty to say I agree with but when you start getting to the personal then you best be able to take the personal. We have had our differences in the past but I respected your integrity. But in this one you have been weighed in the balance and found wanting.
You are still my friend and as such friends do disagree. You mentioned censorship on this blog and it has never happened except for commercial spam. I leave 100% personal attacks and laugh at them . I do wish they would be more creative.
I am sorry you feel the way you do . Howver I do not use the Communist or anti semite label lightly. Do note that I do not use them on Rob.
When a person talks of Jooooish cabals instigating the Iraq War or that Israel had anything to do with it this is anti semitism. This is not my assesment but that of such great conservatives as Howard Dean and Susan Estrich.
Now you may disagree but the case is quite clear. People who are non Jews have said the same thing.
Lastly as we are friends feel free to contribute. I still respect your opinion even when we do not agree. However as far as censorship goes this blog does not and will not ever censor anyone unlike others. Friends agree to disagree at time no harm done.
Okay, B...Uncle.
How about if I restrict my definition of progressive liberals to those flower children of the '60's generation who adopted the idea's of Herbert Marcuse's 1955 classic "Eros and Civilization" and the writings of the Frankfort School and used them as the basis for constructing the new/progressive Democratic Party using the principles they (the SDS) led by the likes of Tom Hayden and there-after delineated in the Port Huron Statement to over-rule the consciences of people and thereby assert and justify the use of positive liberty in opposition to the ideals of classical liberalsim and negative liberty. Are we clear now who I'm talking about?
Now, when you talk about conservatives, just WHO are you talking about?
-FJ
B,
"I can admit when I lost my head, hopefully you can too. I apologize to you."
I do not make empty apologies. Yes, I apologize, I said things I shouldn't have.
B, you have asked Beakerkin to define the term, liberal.
Since you define yourself as liberal, I ask you for a definition of what is (a) liberal.
Shalom
b,
To generalize further (I know you don't like to do this), do you believe that the FEDERAL government of the USA should adopt the principle's of Positve Liberty over it's founding principle's of Negative Liberty? For one concept prevents the FEDERAL government from interfering and coercing citizens and states to accept its' values and do its' will, while the other encourages the FEDERAL government to do so. One severely limits the powers of the FEDERAL government whilst the other removes ALL Limits to its' power. In other words, do you believe that there is or are "unique values" that ALL Americans should be FORCED to embrace, whether they want to or not, and if so, WHAT are those values? Must ALL American's accept a woman's "right to choose" (even if she's only 12 and not quite a woman)? Must ALL American's accept and give equal rights to gays? Must ALL Americans value the teaching profession and have to pay their teachers more? And must ALL Americans exclude religion from politics, even at the "community" level (ie- Amish)? Or are they entitled to what the Declaration of Independence called certain inalienable rights. They are inalienable because they "exist" as thoughts in one's head. Freedom of conscience. Freedom to "value" as one see's fit. Freedom to make one's own life in liberty so that he may pursue happiness. Or do you think the FEDERAL government should force THEIR idea of a good life and what constitutes liberty and a set definition of happiness on ALL Americans?
I believe that the ONE value that reigns supreme is that EVERY individual should be given a un-alienated mind that leaves him free to choose, completely free of ANY FEDERAL coersion, from a variety of different and sometimes opposing "common/public" values. In other words, the States have the potential for creating 50 unique cultures. I simply demand the right to chose from among them. For one choice, one huge FEDERAL system of creating positive liberty, is NOT liberty. I believe that free will requires that an option be available. To vote with one's feet. And your use of government as a one size fits all solution to the world's problem creates unnecessary chaos and an exponential multiplication of "acceptable values" that lead to having NO VALUES.
For to value means to choose or believe that one thing is better than another thing. It also means that some things are worse and universal tolerance of all things leads to having NO VALUES.
-FJ
And so the individual himself has NO POWER to live his OWN life. Only the government and states have POWER to "make" lives. Gee, how nice of you to leave me "POWERless". Especially since the Civil War made the 9th and 10th amendments "moot" and the states no longer have any real POWER. Their armies (POWERs) were "absorbed" by the FEDERAL government after the Civil War. Yes, that did leave state and national Guard units, but at times, place them under FEDERAL command. And "state" guards, who has or needs them anymore?
Did you ever wonder "why" there was opposition to a "Bill of Rights" being made a part of the Constitution? They didn't want to have to list EVERY right/POWER an individual had, because once they started listing them, the government WOULD claim that if they WEREN'T listed there, they weren't individual citizen's rights. And once the feds blew off the 9th and 10th during and after the Civil War, they turned into a POWER hungry and eating machine. Do you think the 10th amendment was an "afterthought", or "fore-sight" into what might happen? Do you think the Colonies were shopping for a new "king" when they signed the Constitution?
What does "POWER to the People" mean to you? You should start chanting "POWER to the Collective". For that is what you do. Let the government do it, here's the POWER.
The government's POWER does NOT belong to them. It's what WE grant Them, and what WE can take away. It's NOT the other way around.
If a community needs something done, let them HIRE local private citizens to do it. Aren't FEDERAL civil servants simply normal citizens that have been selected to exercise certain GIVEN POWERs? Or do they have some kind of "gold" in their physical and mental constitution that makes THEM infallible? The ONLY application of FEDERAL government that shouldn't be "privatized" is the exercise of FORCE against people, and mediating inter-state and foreign commerce and relations, and of course performing executive and adminstrative oversight of same.
Example's...early corporations formed by the citizens of the city of Philadelphia in the 1700's for building bridges, lighthouses, libraries, fire departments, hospitals, et al ad nauseum.
The USACE should NOT be building levee's, they should be regulating the inter-relations between them (Mississippi's and Louisiana's) and requiring the STATES to design and build and maintain effective systems. And if they are building and designing levee's FOR or INSTEAD of the states, why shouldn't THEY be liable for damages? Oh, that's right, they are the feds. The feds can't be sued for damages unless they want to be sued for damages. The same holds true for FEMA. The same holds for ALL government agencies.
So why is the federal government being blamed for Katrina? And why does it seem the governor and mayor are absolved from or less culpable and responsibile? And the people, why are they the innocent "victims". Why? Because YOU made the individual citizen's "POWER-less". You took away their POWERs and responsibilities. You gave them to "the collective". The federal government. Not the Louisiana government. Not the New Orleans government. You gave it to people 1,000 miles AWAY from feeling the EFFECTS of any problem. Now go stand in a corner, and be ashamed of yourself. They couldn't AND shouldn't have been given the job. For what "good" does it do to have "help" and responsibility for providing "help" and "relief" located in Washington DC, thousands and thousands of miles away from where it is needed?
-FJ
b,
Is the principle of "separation" and or "limitation" and "distribution" of POWERs too abstract for you?
-FJ
If so, why do you, as a citizen, feel qualified to govern?
-FJ
I never said NO federal government, they DO have an important, but LIMITED role to play. I said...
"The ONLY application of FEDERAL government that shouldn't be "privatized" is the exercise of FORCE against people, and mediating inter-state and foreign commerce and relations, and of course performing executive and adminstrative oversight of same."
I also said..
"I believe that the ONE value that reigns supreme is that EVERY individual should be given a un-alienated mind that leaves him free to choose, completely free of ANY FEDERAL coersion"
And so, I don't believe in public education...at ALL (BvB). It's simply a vehicle for the government to use to brainwash children. But saying that, all three of my kids went to public school. I figured they'd have to face the attempts to brainwash them fairly early, I couldn't "isolate" them. I had to depend on the values they learned at home BEFORE they even showed up in school, Day 1, and then every evenning at home with us.
And yet YOU want the feds to send kids to pre-schools for Head-Start programs who's value completely disappears by the third or fourth grade.
Do you HAVE any kids? Have you raised ANY kids?
Are there not state governments that cover the same large areas that the federal government covers? The feds can "coordinate" inter-state relief. No problem.
And the party that wants to take away People POWER is the DNC.
If I pass-wind, does the federal government have to know? WMD's imply a war is going. Using FORCE against our enemies is their "specialty". Coping with disasters is and never should be theirs. And yes, I do believe in STATE armies. Up until the WWI, that's how things worked. But you Demies changed all that. Wilson, Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson... WAR Presidents, ALL.
-FJ
b,
Do you see the difference between your approach and mine? You want to feds to control all the "details" of every policy uniformly on a national basis. I give powers and set limits to the feds, and leave the details to the people, who can farm them off on their local and state governments if they want to. You create a federal bureaucracy of millions of civil servants. Mine would be 1/10th the size at most. Of course, my "state" governments would get more responsibiities. And my "local" governments would get even more. But then, most of the responsibilities and powers for controlling my life would be mine. I wouldn't simply be a "number" then, 1 vote out of 100,000,000 million cast. I'd actually have a greater voice in the decisions that affect me made 1 in 7,000,000 at the state level. 1 in 150,000 at the county level. My power grows and grows with each step closer. Till I end up with 1 in 5 at my family level, along with "executive" authority. ;-)
-FJ
Yes, some people could discriminate. Some people in the past actually had... gasp... slaves. But we don't have any slaves anymore. Now EVERYONE could vote with their FEET. No underground railroad. You don't like it, you leave.
And chances are, you'll go where you DO like it. And then you'll live however you choose to live. Only you couldn't HAVE slaves. Remember that thing about freedom of conscience? You could set up and live in Marxtown in the state of Gaytopia and nobody would bother you unless you came to visit me in Amish country. Then you'd have to get up a five am, work all day, and go to bed (alone) at sunset.
Did you ever hear of Fourierism (sic) and the Phalanx colony? They were a nineteenth century experiment in PURE socialism. In the middle of America. Nobody bothered them. Imagine that. It failed (of course). Nobody wanted to do the dirty work. They set up a factory version in France. It failed too. Imagine that.
Try living in FREEDOM for a change. Nobody says you can't join a commune and make sweet sweet love all day long, even TODAY. But what you want, is for me to support you. I've already raised three kids, I don't need to raise any more.
And what do you care how much "profit" I make either. Are you jealous/envious? My customers "profit" from the goods I sell them, at the prices I set for them. If they didn't, they wouldn't BUY them. Profit is a "good". Read Plato's "Hipparchus" (aka The Profiteer).
And who'd pay for the roads? Counties and States. Interstate connections coordinated by the feds (ie Route 66). How many roads would there be? As many as were needed. As many as were wanted. And NYC residents wouldn't be paying for unnecessary roads in the sticks of Mississippi.
And please tell me just how does the federal government today doesn't "leave the ability for people to discriminate, to segregate, and to hate, with full discretion." You don't think the feds "discriminate"? Oh they don't, they give "preferences". You don't think the feds "segregate"? How many blacks vote Republican? You don't think the DNC keeps the "scare factor" working on blacks 24/7? You don't think the feds hate? What's with this war in Iraq? Do you love Bush? You don't think the feds have FULL discretion? How have you limited any of their POWERS? What is YOUR power over the feds? 1 vote in 100,000,000. You are a sickly little bug in their eyes.
Time to metamorphasize back into a human being, Kalfka.
-FJ
ps - It's the people's job to make sure corporations DON'T take over America. But what taxes do they pay? What limits and priveledges do the feds give THEM in EVERY spending bill, Republican OR Democrat. They're fleecing us. But you want to give them even MORE powers, so Haliburton and Genentech can clone cyborgs and conquer the world. Do yourself a favor. Stop writing the feds a blank and/or ever increasing check every quarter.
-FJ
ps - People starving? What did people do BEFORE the twentieth century? What does the church do? read Marvin Olasky's "The Tragedy of American Compassion". and find out. Instead of having thousands of poor inner city blacks sitting in the dome, there only would have been 1/10th as many. But you've turned the "dole" for "emergencies" into a lifestyle. Me, I make the "able bodied" chop wood for their room and board. Aren't I a meany!
-FJ
pps - And I don't HAVE to let WALMART build their SUPERSTORE next to the local hardware store and bagel shop in town. I can create community that DOESN'T want a WALMART and wants to keep all it's money invested in the LOCAL community. The WTO will HATE me.
-FJ
pps - And "public areas, PLEASE, don't get me started. The feds wouldn't HAVE any land. The community would have it. Yes, a hotel might actually go up in Yosemite as a result. But if they over-developed Yosemite, why would anybody go there?
-FJ
b,
Much as I'd like to comply, I'm afraid it's not possible. I like to anticipate the shape and curves of the line and its' limits before I draw it on the paper. I don't believe beautiful lines can be draw by randomly applying points to a canvas and then connecting them.
-FJ
I am a communist of a different sort. You are a unitarian communist. I am more of a person who believes in "co-mm-unities". You seek diversity within one community. I seek unity in a diversity of communities. A distinction WITH a difference. Outcome.
-FJ
Some Fairy Tales for b (Hesiod, Works and Days)
Muses of Pieria who give glory through song, come hither, tell of Zeus your father and chant his praise. Through him mortal men are famed or un-famed, sung or unsung alike, as great Zeus wills. For easily he makes strong, and easily he brings the strong man low; easily he humbles the proud and raises the obscure, and easily he straightens the crooked and blasts the proud, -- Zeus who thunders aloft and has his dwelling most high.
Attend thou with eye and ear, and make judgements straight with righteousness. And I, Perses, would tell of true things.
So, after all, there was not one kind of Strife alone, but all over the earth there are two. As for the one, a man would praise her when he came to understand her; but the other is blameworthy: and they are wholly different in nature. For one fosters evil war and battle, being cruel: her no man loves; but perforce, through the will of the deathless gods, men pay harsh Strife her honour due. But the other is the elder daughter of dark Night, and the son of Cronos who sits above and dwells in the aether, set her in the roots of the earth: and she is far kinder to men. She stirs up even the shiftless to toil; for a man grows eager to work when he considers his neighbour, a rich man who hastens to plough and plant and put his house in good order; and neighbour vies with is neighbour as he hurries after wealth. This Strife is wholesome for men. And potter is angry with potter, and craftsman with craftsman, and beggar is jealous of beggar, and minstrel of minstrel.
Perses, lay up these things in your heart, and do not let that Strife who delights in mischief hold your heart back from work, while you peep and peer and listen to the wrangles of the court-house. Little concern has he with quarrels and courts who has not a year's victuals laid up betimes, even that which the earth bears, Demeter's grain. When you have got plenty of that, you can raise disputes and strive to get another's goods. But you shall have no second chance to deal so again: nay, let us settle our dispute here with true judgement divided our inheritance, but you seized the greater share and carried it off, greatly swelling the glory of our bribe-swallowing lords who love to judge such a cause as this. Fools! They know not how much more the half is than the whole, nor what great advantage there is in mallow and asphodel.
For the gods keep hidden from men the means of life. Else you would easily do work enough in a day to supply you for a full year even without working; soon would you put away your rudder over the smoke, and the fields worked by ox and sturdy mule would run to waste. But Zeus in the anger of his heart hid it, because Prometheus the crafty deceived him; therefore he planned sorrow and mischief against men. He hid fire; but that the noble son of Iapetus stole again for men from Zeus the counsellor in a hollow fennel-stalk, so that Zeus who delights in thunder did not see it. But afterwards Zeus who gathers the clouds said to him in anger:
`Son of Iapetus, surpassing all in cunning, you are glad that you have outwitted me and stolen fire -- a great plague to you yourself and to men that shall be. But I will give men as the price for fire an evil thing in which they may all be glad of heart while they embrace their own destruction.'
So said the father of men and gods, and laughed aloud. And he bade famous Hephaestus make haste and mix earth with water and to put in it the voice and strength of human kind, and fashion a sweet, lovely maiden-shape, like to the immortal goddesses in face; and Athene to teach her needlework and the weaving of the varied web; and golden Aphrodite to shed grace upon her head and cruel longing and cares that weary the limbs. And he charged Hermes the guide, the Slayer of Argus, to put in her a shameless mind and a deceitful nature.
So he ordered. And they obeyed the lord Zeus the son of Cronos. Forthwith the famous Lame God moulded clay in the likeness of a modest maid, as the son of Cronos purposed. And the goddess bright-eyed Athene girded and clothed her, and the divine Graces and queenly Persuasion put necklaces of gold upon her, and the rich-haired Hours crowned her head with spring flowers. And Pallas Athene bedecked her form with all manners of finery. Also the Guide, the Slayer of Argus, contrived within her lies and crafty words and a deceitful nature at the will of loud thundering Zeus, and the Herald of the gods put speech in her. And he called this woman Pandora (2), because all they who dwelt on Olympus gave each a gift, a plague to men who eat bread.
But when he had finished the sheer, hopeless snare, the Father sent glorious Argus-Slayer, the swift messenger of the gods, to take it to Epimetheus as a gift. And Epimetheus did not think on what Prometheus had said to him, bidding him never take a gift of Olympian Zeus, but to send it back for fear it might prove to be something harmful to men. But he took the gift, and afterwards, when the evil thing was already his, he understood.
For ere this the tribes of men lived on earth remote and free from ills and hard toil and heavy sickness which bring the Fates upon men; for in misery men grow old quickly. But the woman took off the great lid of the jar with her hands and scattered all these and her thought caused sorrow and mischief to men. Only Hope remained there in an unbreakable home within under the rim of the great jar, and did not fly out at the door; for ere that, the lid of the jar stopped her, by the will of Aegis-holding Zeus who gathers the clouds. But the rest, countless plagues, wander amongst men; for earth is full of evils and the sea is full. Of themselves diseases come upon men continually by day and by night, bringing mischief to mortals silently; for wise Zeus took away speech from them. So is there no way to escape the will of Zeus.
-FJ
b,
Me too, thanks for your time.
-FJ
In the weeks following September 11th, 2001, I told my formerly liberal girlfriend to just "watch" what the Democrats do when it comes to actually acting on all that "America is United" talk, and prepared to be disgusted.
The Democrats went into full speed obstructionist-leftist mode, and poisoned all discussion with their perennial embrace of America's enemies.
Needless to say, she's a solid Republican now.
Funny what paying attention to domestic politics will do for GOP membership rolls. The Democrats haven't changed their divisive tune since 1836, so it's pretty easy to predict that when one opens their mouth, certifiable jackassery will issue forth.
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