Tuesday, March 15, 2005

Honest Dissent and Bigotry

My main problem with Israel's critics are a lack of accuracy and a monofocus on Israel disproportionate to reality. There are alot of problems in the world but the focus on Israel almost exclusiely by some is pathological. There is a world of difference between points raised by some and others who also favor a Palestinian State.
The twisting of history into comic book forms is symbolic of bigotry. Israel has never engaged in any form of ethnic cleansing. Israeli Arabs live in Israel and enjoy more rights than they do in almost any other Muslim Nation. Check the country indexes of Freedom House and look for yourself. How does one ethnically cleanse a population that grows exponentialy ? One can look at the fate of Jews in Muslim countries to find out about real ethnic cleansing. Kindly vist JIMENA and read for yourself. Google the demographics of any Muslim country if one wants to look at ethnicaly cleansed territory try Turkey, Jordan & Pakistan.
The other terms are absurd comparisons between South Africa and Nazi Germany. Israel is not an Aparthied state. Jews not Sunni Arabs are the indigenous people and this is backed by history and archeology. The left has a decided blind spot for Muslim and Arab colonialism. Where does the Recidivist stand on Assyrians and Coptic nationhood ? Is he consistently against indigenous people when they are Jews or is he a Muslim first person. This rationale would explain the scant attention or interest in Assyria or Copts. Pointing out an oasis of democracy and rights in a sea of violent totalitarianism is disingenuous.
Zionism as Racism is another staple he posts. The Jewish people are cosmipolitan and have every race represented in Israel. Have the Falsha's become martians ? Zionism is the legitimate right of the Jewish people to self determination. The law of return is similar to laws in Russia , Germany and elsewhere. The fact remains Jews are the indigenous people , Sunni Arabs are not. The Recidivists mono focus on Jews and Israel is part of a larger problem.
Then there is the initial comment anout US Jews being paranoid. All sources that disagree with him are tainted by Zionism. The fact that a writer writes somethingthat disagrees with his opinion makes him a Zionist Schill. The facts of the writers are impugned merely because they support Israel. David Horowitz is a fine author and writes the facts as he sees them. The responses and tone of the responses of the Israel critics (kafka & zombie, chemist excluded) prove his theseis about bigotry on the left against Jews and Israel. His premise about Zionist propoganda comes close to the David Duke line of Jewish media control.
The response of the Recidivist about his European Jewish comrades is typical of a US Redneck. Do not say I'm a bigot I got plenty of Jewish friends who agree with me. The point is that when we dissent from his view we become propagandists and paranoid.The truth about the extreeme left (not you Kafka )is that it is a mindless Utopian cult. You have your daily two minutes of hate against Bush and Israel and a series of PC views.
The problem with the left is that it has gone overboard. A typical post on an excellent blog the disruntled Chemist " the President is a Pussy ". These angry voices do not convert a single follower. In fact they push them away as people do not listen to angry people. They also do not listen to Conspiracy nuts. Fortunately, we do not have them here yet.
If you support the Palestinians there are better arguments and organization. The David project takes a balanced views of the entire ME situation . They do not white wash Islamic History or current events. They talk about all the minorities in the Middle East. They do favor a Palestinian State and human rights for eveyone. There is a major difference between that group and the bigoted fulminations of the Recidinist and Jews Sans frontieres.
If you care about Islam get behind Stephen Schwartz. Stephen Schwartz wants to purge his faith from the Wahabi nihlistic cult of death. He is an American patriot who is working to reclaim his faith. He has thrown enough thunderbolts at me to last a lifetime.


Craigy B said...

Still you refuse to post evidence.

David Horowitz is a circus act who comes to the irrational conclusion that anyone who doesn't actively promote Israel is anti-Semitic - even Jews.

I am just reading your latest hilarious contribution to your blog. Do you even actually know what 'Jews Sans frontieres' means? One suspects not, otherwise you wouldn't actually accuse them of being anti-Semitic. And why do you keep accusing Recidivist of being associated with them?

Finally, why should anyone prove that Palestinians are anything other than Sunni Arabs, when you have as yet failed to even try to show us that they are.

Good to see that you don't deny the charges made against you though.

And just for your information, because you fraudulently claim that You claim that only Jews are semitic

The American Heritage Dictionary says:


. A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.
. Bible. A descendant of Shem.

adj : of or relating to or characteristic of Semites; "Semite peoples" [syn: Semite, Semitic] n : a member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Middle East and northern Africa [syn: Semite]

Wikipedia says: properly used to refer to the cultures of people who have traditionally spoken Semitic languages, or to such ancient peoples themselves and their modern descendents. The Semitic languages are the Asiatic northeastern subfamily of the Afro-Asiatic languages. The word derives from Shem, one of the three sons of Noah.

The Semitic Museum at Harvard says: we are one of the Harvard University Museums, housing collections of archaeological materials from the Ancient Near East. Our current exhibits explore everyday life in ancient Israel during the Iron Age; a 2nd millennium BCE Hurrian city, located in modern-day Iraq; and the history of ancient Cyprus through ceramics and metal objects.

The Journal of Semitic Studies says: Semitic Studies has always been understood by the editors to include the modern as well as the ancient Near (Middle) East, with special emphasis on research into the languages and literatures of the area.

Collin’s English Dictionary (the official dictionary of Scrabble) says:

Semitic or less commonly Shemitic noun
1. a branch or subfamily of the Afro-Asiatic family of languages that includes Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic, Amharic, and such ancient languages as Akkadian and Phoenician
2. adjective denoting, relating to, or belonging to this group of languages
3. denoting, belonging to, or characteristic of any of the peoples speaking a Semitic language, esp the Jews or the Arabs


You are acting like a spoilt little brat who can't admit that he is wrong. You just stamp your feet and scream I AM RIGHT, but you don't back it up with anything and you just ignore or refuse to accept any evidence that is put to you.

Your blind bigotry and hatred for anything Muslim is plain for all to see. Your claims to the contrary are dripping with insincerity.

SIMPLE TRUTH: You are a control freak who can not tolerate anyone being anti-Semitic, because in your blinkered view of politics: if you are anti-Zionist, then you must be poor-Muslim and pro-Arab. That is flawed logic.

Now put up the proof or shut up.

Warren said...

Even if you are not addressing me,
Anti-Semitic has the same relationship to Semitic as rationalization does to rational.

Your twisting and turning to link the word Semitic with anti-Semitic is a rationalization, it is not rational. It is an attempt to redefine and muddy the waters.

Anti-Semitic has exclusively been used, since its coining, to mean hatred of Jews and anti-Jewish sentiment.

It has never been used to denote hatred of Arabs, or Arabs and Jews collectively. It may make you feel better to pretend otherwise but it serves no purpose otherwise. The term is defined by usage not your wishes.

I have never heard it used otherwise except by anti-Semites trying to rationalize their anti-Semitism.

"SIMPLE TRUTH: You are a control freak who can not tolerate anyone being anti-Semitic, because in your blinkered view of politics: if you are anti-Zionist, then you must be poor-Muslim and pro-Arab. That is flawed logic."

The simple truth is that you just admitted your anti-Semitism and logic is not your strong suit.

beakerkin said...

Craig my original point was made in the blog. A typical ethicity is aquried one of three ways linguistic, historic or religious identity.

Language Arabic
Religion Sunni
Historical 1964

What basis does this group qualify as an ethnicity ? They are Arabs period and not indigenous. Can you find me a Palestinan artifact circa
1600 ? Who were the leaders of these people ? What currency did they use ?

There are Arabs on soil that was colonized and its indigenous people mistreated. 70% of Jordanians call themselves Palestinian.How many states do they need ?Two, Three

You have not dealt with the issue of who the Colonizers and Indigenous people are. One can not Colonize a land he is indigenous to.

It is time for the Arabs to get out of Assyria too. It is time the Copts got a home land too. Do you guys have anything to say on that subject.

Craigy B said...

The simple truth is that you just admitted your anti-Semitism and logic is not your strong suit

Warren, if you really think that, then you are even more off the rails that Beakertwit.

Enjoy your childrens games.

beakerkin said...

See this is interesting and directly to the point. If there is no such ethnicity as a Palestinian than it proves there is no need for a state.
There have been dictionary attempts
and folklore. However, this proves a major point Arabs do not care about there own. They let them sit in squalor after a defacto population exchange. The problem of these people lies not in Israel but within the Arab household.

Warren said...

Look Craigy,
I am not playing games!

2 points.

To Beakerkin You said:
"SIMPLE TRUTH: You are a control freak who can not tolerate anyone being anti-Semitic, because in your blinkered view of politics: if you are anti-Zionist, then you must be poor-Muslim and pro-Arab. That is flawed logic."

Which implies that, you think anti-Semitism should be tolerated.

The only people I know of that think it should be tolerated are anti-Semites and ignorant children that don't know what anti-Semitism is or what it leads to.

The second point would be why in hell would someone be anti-Zionist and not be pro Muslim or pro Arab? The only reason I can think of is, Judeaphobia, which is a newer word essentially meaning anti-Semitism.

I have run into this before among white supremacists, (we have no love for one another, me being a member of one of the "mud races"), and all. They constantly tell everyone that they are not anti-Semitic, then give the same old shuck and jive about Arabs being Semitic peoples. Then they say "We are not anti-Jewish, we are anti-Zionist!", In a pigs eye!

Its really quite interesting. They support the "Palestinian People" too. Then if you dig around thru their web sites and postings, you will find references to sand niggers, camel jockeys and rag heads posted by the same people. One of them made reference to Arabs being first cousins to Jews and little better. You can find all kinds of neat cartoons with caricatures of Jews committing various obscene actions. You can find the same cartoons on Arab websites.

You see, they support the "rights" of "Palestinians", as long as they are killing Jews!

I do not tolerate anti-Semitism, it is a sickness, and you shouldn't tolerate it either.

craigy b said...

Warren, it does not imply that anti-Semitism should be tollerated. There has been no anti-Semitism here, and neither you nor you very dim buddy Beakertwit have managed to show that there has.

What I don't tollerate is bigotry, and the problem that you and Beakertwit have is that you are so laden down with it that it is beyond belief.

You see what you agenda tells you that you have to see, so you just end up making complete arses of yourselves.

Even in the post you have just made, you are suggesting motive that you don't have a scrap of evidence to link any of us to. You are just talking in broad to try to discredit and taint - that makes you the bigot who isn't able to debate on actual facts.

One final time I will ask you to show us HARD EVIDENCE, or just shut up.

Warren said...

It is quite evident you have a comprehension problem.

What you do not tolerate is anyone that disagrees with you, so you call them bigots and liars. In your mind, anyone that disagrees with you is a racist. You demand "Hard Evidence", but you have had it already. Absence of evidence is also evidence.

You claim that the "Palestinians" are an ethnicity, (a unique people), If this is so it should be readily provable. You should be able to show some identifiable difference. What is/are those differences?

Is it genetic... No, there are no genetic differences between "Palestinians" and Sunni Arabs. Is it cultural... No, there are no cultural differences between "Palestinians" and Sunni Arabs, Is it religious... No, they ARE Sunni Arabs.Did the Israelis destroy the nation of Palestine... No, there is no evidence, written or otherwise, of a nation of Palestine. Palestine is just a region and has always been so. There never existed a nation called Palestine.

From an etymological dictionary,
from L. Palestina (name of a Roman province), from Gk. Palaistine (Herodotus), from Heb. Pelesheth "Philistia, land of the Philistines." Revived as a political territorial name 1920.
The British were the ones that "revived", that political territorial name. The residents of that area were known as "Palestinian Jews", "Palestinian Arabs", "Palestinian Christians" and so on. The largest portion of that political territorial area consisted of what is now know as Jordan and 70% of its people still identify themselves as Palestinians.

That is very "HARD EVIDENCE"!

You are simply being a 'useful idiot", as Stalin called them. Do I need to define that for you also?

The problem is that if the "Palestinian" problem is an Arab problem instead of a case of "ethnic cleansing" or "the civil rights" of Palestinians, then you and your buddies on the radical left haven't a leg to stand on. You would also have to deal with the real ethnic cleansing and the total lack of civil rights in the Arab world. That is a problem that you and your anti-Semite buddies are totally unwilling to deal with even outside the Israeli/Palestinian issue.

I notice that you hesitate to attack me personally or with as much venom as you did Beakerkin. Why is that, craigy?

Is it because Beakerkin identified me as being of, "Native American"/ Indian, ancestry? Don't be shocked, only radical leftists, the PC crowd and Twinkies insist they are "Native Americans". I usually don't identify myself as such unless some nut job starts speaking 'ex cathreda', about "Native Americans". If that is what you are doing, it is a subtle form of racism. It is the same as not expecting as much from blacks or Arabs. Think about that!

You said:
"Even in the post you have just made, you are suggesting motive that you don't have a scrap of evidence to link any of us to."

I have your words, (they do mean things you know), if you don't know the meanings or understand the logical connections when you put them together perhaps you should take a class on the elements of style and another in logic.

"You are just talking in broad to try to discredit and taint - that makes you the bigot who isn't able to debate on actual facts."You discredit and taint yourself with your own words. I'm still waiting to hear from you what those "actual facts" are. Are they like the "Department of Redundancies Department"?

WHOA!!! Craigy called me a bigot, sob, sob!
I'm completely devastated! I shall eat worms and cry for a week! I will rend my garments and rub ashes on my face to show repentance! I shall wear a hair shirt and ring a lepers bell everywhere I go! I shall wear only clothes of sack cloth! I shall scourge myself twice a day for a year. I shall convert and become a radical leftist... Well maybe not the last, that would be insane.


beakerkin said...

Craig face the facts and grow up.
Your Pal the Recidivist is hardly laughing . He has lengthy post responding to the charges here.

He has responded and I get more coverage in his blog than my own.
Read today's blog except that he doesn't cite sources I do. He won't permit discussion of Islamic colonization. Nor will he permit a
talk of other nationalities in the
same situation.

The fact is that your idol is a pathological bigot. He has no intellect in his posts.

Kafkaesque stated that his attack on me in a neutral forum was unwarranted.

Even Zombie said both sides have thrown insults.

Try again What is the difference between a Palestinian and an Arab ?

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