Saturday, March 12, 2005

The Cowardly Recidivist and Intollerant Radicals

Recently we had a visitor to this site who demonstrated my points about the left and their incoherent views of Jews, Israel and the USA. The policy of this blog is to allow and encourage posts. I do not back down from my assertions that elements of the left have devolved into a hateful clique. I encourage all leftwing Israel and Republican bashers to speak up. Your lack of civility, knowledge of history will be put on display for all to see. I respect honest liberals but this is a far cry from what we see daily. Real Liberals are patriotic and agree with me about open debate. The Radical left loves to place speech codes on campus. Dissent is fine as long as one agees with us. This is Orwellian logic right out of 1984 and has no place in America.
While this forum is open to all my opponent has changed the settings on his blog to a team setting. I am not afraid of his words or arguments and I encourage you come again and bring your friends. Bring them all here and express yourself on this blog.
Your lack of courage is typical of the left. I can not be a racist because there is no such thing as a Palestinian race or nation. The problem with the Recidivist is that he feels that all sources that disagree with his spurious points are tainted by Zionism.
Lets examine why this leftist has called me a bigot. He is upset because I claim there is no such thing as a Palestinian.There is no connection between biblical Philistines and Palestinians.The whole myth of the Palestinian is a moder creation after 1967. Prior to that the context of the wars had been Pan Arabism. The rallying cry was "Drive the Jews into the Sea ".
For more on these myths Http//
This new ethnicity does not have its own language. This new ethnicity has no history prior to 1964. This new ethnicity has the same religion as that of people in neighboring states Sunni Muslim. There is a simple reason for this Palestinians are the descendants of Arab invaders who colonized the area in the year 638 AD a mere 2600 years after the Jews were there. The fact is that Arabs are on real estate that does not belong to them in a variety of areas.
The Sykes- Picot treaty paved the way for Sunni Arab domination and created a series of bogus states. The people sold out in this fiasco were Assyrians and Kurds. All of the states in the region are creations of this treaty . Kurds and Shiites ware divided along illogical lines.
Lets compare Palestinians to these other stateless people. Kurds have a historical identity predating Islam and their own language. Assyrians are a mere 4000 years old have their own language and religion. Coptics are 4000 years old have their own religion and language. There are other groups with far superior claims Basques, Tibetians any Comanches .In fact I could do an entire blog on why Brooklyn NY has a greater case for nation hood than Palestine.
There is no connection to biblical Palestinian but if people like the Recidivist insist fine get out of the West Bank and move to the land of the Phillistines the Gaza strip. The connection to Cannanites is more absurd but coming from this crowd it is to be expected.
The left likes to talk about European Colonialism, American Colonialism and Israeli Colonialism. It does not say a word about Islamic Colonialism, Ethnocide and Genocide perpetrated on Jews, Christians and others. One can read about this topic in the works of Bat Ye'or or in Frederick P Isaacs Indigenous people Under the Rule of Islam.If Colonialism was evil when done by White Europeans it is doubly so when done in the name of Islam. The reason being is they are still on other peoples real estate today.
The sanctimonious left loves to indict Israel and America for its percieved crimes. Yet a simple book the Black Book of Communism shows the legacy of the left 100,000,000. There is debate as to what the Nazis were and there are certainly arguments that also place them among the left as well. I will leave them out for the sake of this post. The Recidivist ommits and neglects far more extensive ties between the Pseudostinians and Nazis. The ties were significant and part of a pathology of denial on the left.
Let us begin with the word indigenous. The Jews are the indigenous people and this fact is backed clearly by history and archeology. Palestinians are the descendants of Arab invaders who arrived 2600 years after the Jews. In fact Jews are but one of a series of indigenous people brutalized by Islam. A partial list of people brutalized includes Jews, Assyrians , Copts, Maronites, Zoroastrian, Hindus, Sikhs,Yezedis,Animists,Bhudists and a range of tribal people. In fact I challenge one to name a major religion that is not in historic or current conflict with Islam except Shintoism. Shintoism has yet to come into conflict with Islam. Jews, Assyrian Christians and Zoroastrians lived in peace amongst Hindus. How does Hinduism turn violent only when Islam is added. Jews lived so peacably in China they intermarried and converted. What ethnic group is causing problems in Western China ? We can go around the world and find mayhem bigotry and intollerance. The vast preponderance of ethnic conflicts involve Islam. Islam is in conflict with Bhudism and that religion is known for peace. The whole rest of the world is guilty of picking on Islam. Do you want to buy the Brooklyn Bridge. Take a trip to Freedom House and look at the freedom index Israel has a better rating than Turkey. The two most consistant variables with a poor rating are Communism and Islam.
Islamic Colonialism spread across Africa and Asia and Europe. Spaim was invaded in 710 and torture was used to intimidate Goths. Tariq Ibn Ziyad boiled prisoners in a cauldron and sliced other. (Alvin Schidtt The great Divide 45) We are suposede to feel sorry for the Muslims when Ghenghis Kahn employed similar techniques later. They were stopped in France by Charles Martel in the battle of Tours 732. They remained in Spain for the mythical golden age.This myth has been dispelled by Bat Ye'or . Scmidtt 47 Almost all the Churches were destroyed.6,000 Jews massacred in Fez 1033 and 3,000 more in Granada 1066. In 1126 the Christians were forcibly deported to Morocco. In 1148 the Jews were ordered to convert or be deported. We read about the Spanish Inquisition of 1492 but zero about similar measures caried out under Islam. In 1492 the Moors were kicked out a mere 700 years after they invaded. This is longer than the European Colonization of other nations. Yet we hear silence from the left.
Islam goes on to Colonize Europe except that the legacy of this invasion is still being felt in the Balkans tody.*Schmidtt pg 49 1351 Muslims invade Thrace 1361 conquer Adrianople.* 50 1389 Turks defeat Serbs in Kosovo. *51 for 800 years the Muslims try to conquer Constintanople 1453 it falls. 4,000 masacred, 50,000 sent into slavery.*53 The Muslims were stopped in Vienna twice 1526 &1683.
This is only part of the story it gets worse. However if the Recidivist insists on playing the Howard Zinn indict a civilization by its history game I will respond. Islam is the single worst practitioner on Colonialism , Ethnocide and Genocide in history.
Scmidtt Frequent Massacres of Armenian set the motion for the First Crusade. Turks commit Genocide on


Redbeard said...

Beak, the basis for leftists' inability to handle debate is the leftists' inability to handle facts. Shouting, denigrating and posturing are the only speaking tools they have.

Facts are a nuisance and get in the way of a good hyperbolistic rant, so they are disregarded by the left rather completely in favor of loopy anecdotes and outright untruths.

On the other hand, when leftists are forced to confront cold, hard facts (say, for example, the incontrovertible truth that there has never been a nation of Palestine, except for the one created in 1947 that the Arabs crudely rejected in favor of war), they panic, change the subject and shout all the more incoherently.

Defending leftism is like defending any other philosophy that is devoid of reason; it's impossible to do with rational arguments.

TheDONAL said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
beakerkin said...

It is an easy process. I am stepping out for a while.

TheDONAL said...

I don't know--about Spain and the no involvement thing with the left, Islam etc. What I see when I go to leftist site on the Net and read about their opposition to the Iraqi war (despite touting themselves as being oh-so-concerned-and people-loving) is really a profound lack of connection with them. They do not connect with their lives--at times I wonder if they see them as human at all. I mean, what else could be the reason they turn such a blind eye to the suffering in Iraq, Darfur--MAYBE a brief nod to Tibet--even unto those people suffering and dying and leading horrible lives?

The rationalizations I see--the 'we have no business there', the 'who asked us to butt in', the they never asked us to make them a democracy'--or whatever they come up with, is so uninvolved unthinking, uncaring, unmindful. It serves the purpose of keeping their lives safe and unchanging--and the world untouched when it SHOULD be touched, touched by a mighty hand. That is NOT the hand of the left. Theirs, for others outside of their world, is empty and palm downward.

I don't understand. However, a profound fear grips them. I don't know if they are afraid their world will change past their being able to control it, or if they are afraid that something will be asked of them that they cannot give, but the terrible fear is there and it has them utterly paralyzed.

Sometimes it feels like the 'terrible twos' but, more often the end result is just banality and evil.

The left has long turned a blind eye to what Islam has done--particularly in Spain. I believe this comes less from their lack of feeling about the Jews than a profound lack of feeling about, or caring for Islam. They simply don't connect with the people.

Mark Jordan said...

Spot the bitter Zionist troll who has been exposed and is seething at having an outlet for his bitter racist ranting denied to him.

Never in my life have I read such a load of factually incorrect incoherent nonsense.

How you have the nerve to lecture anyone at all is beyond me, since it is patently obvious that you are incapable of debate.

You avoid any issue which is put directly to you, and instead respond with standard propagandist jargon, which is of no relevance whatsoever to what is being discussed. Not satisfied with that, you then seek to head off any dissent form your view, by making ludicrous personal charges which you singularly fail to substantiate.

The facts are very clear indeed to anyone who actually cares to look: YOU ARE A TROLL and your claims that others are cowards, anti-Semitic, or whatever else, are heavily laden with desperation and insincerity.

Redbeard said...

I'm new here, but I didn't think having an open board and allowing everyone to post could be considered trying to "head off any dissent form (sic) your view." Help me out here.

Also, Mark, could you share with us your take on what Beakerkin posted that is "a load of factually incorrect incoherent nonsense?" I'm just an ignorant gentile, relatively unschooled in the politics of the middle east, so specifics would be nice.

Oh, and there's a point of order I need to have clarified. Is it actually possible to be a troll on one's own blog? I never knew that.

beakerkin said...

Unlike your board my board is open to all. I do not hide here behind labels and term. How is one racist against a race that doesn't exist.
Find me a Palestinian artifact ,author,currency from 1300. The fact is you can't because it is a made up nationality.
I am playing the game by your rules. If you want to talk about colonialism fine. Lets start with Islamic clonialism. We have 1300 years.
Do you want to indict the founders of Israel and America ? Thats fine than lets talk about the history of Islam.
Are Jews the only indigenous people you do not sympathize with ?
Do you want to go into extenisive Palestinian Nazi tie ? Do you want to go into Jim Crow Dhimmi laws.

The bottom line is that you are a coward. You are free to come here as often as you like. I encourage you to bring help. You did not refute a single point.

Red beard is correct on the most pertinent fact. One can not be a troll on his own board. This board is free and open to all. Why isn't yours.

Marlk Jordan said...

Comment Deleted
This post has been removed by the blog administrator.

11:36:16 AM
That makes you a liar and a hypocrite :)

Add that to the fact that you have disabled comments in parts of your blog.

And on a further point of order, you haven't been accused of trolling on your own blog - you have been accused of trolling your racist hate filled bile on other peoples blog comments.

beakerkin said...

That was personal message. Do you want to read Hello from Donal. She posted her views.

Warren said...

For you, Mr Jordan.
Trolls don't argue with you or give you links to their boards. Their comments consist of shrill invective, like yours. They simply try to disrupt other boards for no particular reason.

That Beakerkin, or I, disagree with your revisionist world view and the fact you will not tolerate it, says much more of your prejudices than ours.

You lot remind me of screaming spoiled children who put their fingers in their ears then jabber nonsence to keep from hearing when they are being corrected.

Someone who knew far more about racism than you will ever know said:

"... You declare, my friend; that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist'. And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of G-d's green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- this is G-d's own truth.

beakerkin said...

Once again I want to point out the difference between myself and the Recidivist. I maintain an open forum and welcome dissent. Anyone can drop in and state their case. This is the policy of my blog. I hide from nobody. All you anti Zionists are welcome on my forum to state your case.
The Recidivist runs a team blog and hides from real debate. He does not answer questions but repeats slogans. In fact this post is not even done. I update my posts as I go.
He has not found a single error. His Comtention is that Zionism is Racism. There is no Palestinian Race or etnicity. Jews of all races live in peace. Lastly Palestinians are Sunni Arabs on soil that Jews are indigenous to.

He hides and has not answered a point. Why is Israel held to such a high standard ? The reason is that focusing disproportionate attention on Israel is bigotry.

kafkaesq said...

Beaker, you're oversimplifying to advance your argument.

There certainly isn't a nation of Palestine, but neither was there an exclusively Jewish nation of Israel. The truth is, historically, both Arabs (and Muslims of other ethnicity) and Jews coexisted in that troubled piece of land we call Israel today. Neither has a stronger claim to it that the other. Both sides pretend they do.

You falsely characterize "the left" with you quite offensive post and comments. Ever heard of The New Republic? That magazine, as one of many examples, is run by a group of liberals who are extremely pro-Israel. You can't define the left by anit-Israeli politics. That's dishonest and you know it.

"The vast preponderance of ethnic conflicts involve Islam."

I think Christianity gives Islam a run for it's money on that one. The grim truth is, RELIGION is what has caused a vast majority of the wars and general suffering of the human race since time immemorial. Leave it to us apex predators of the Earth to get so comfortable that we need to create reasons to kill each other.

Mark Jordan said...


If your blog is so open, why did you deleted the comments that I posted 6 hours ago?


The fact that he posts invalid and politically biased sources with little or no credibility does not preclude him from being a troll. If anything that only goes to support the notion that he is a troll.

As for you rather chariming Martin Luther King quote, you kind of miss the point that the nature of Zionism has changed a great deal since that was supposedly said - nor does the fact that he said it actually make it true.

Nor does it even say that anyone who claims to be anti-Zionist is also anti-Semitic.

The irony is had Martin Lurther been alive today he would have despised what Zionism has turned in to, and would have been the first one to admit that Zionist were indeed facist pigs. He would have seen sights in which when Sharon visits London, there are far more anti-Zionsit Jews out on the streets demonstrating against him that there are Muslims and Palesttinians. Yet according to you being anti-Zionist is being anti-semitic. What nonsense.

beakerkin said...

The charge that I deleted any comments pertinent to debate is false. If you look at the comment below it contains a message I am going out. The post above it was a personal greeting from Donal.

As for the Recidivist I am not allowed to comment on his site it is a team blog. However I invite you to bring all your friends at the objective(chortle) website Jews Sans Frontiers here. I am looking foward to it. I think the Israeli - Dr Mengele story speaks vollumes about your objectivity.

You have not disproved a single item in my post. Jews are a distinct people with a culture, language .Palestinians speak Arabic,practice Sunni Islam and have no distinct culture. There are articles that say as much quoted on the site.

The fact remains that the Colonialists are the descendants of Sunni Arabs who invaded and colonized a series of lands and oppressed a series of indigenous people.

I am only one third of the way through this post. Bring your friends because you will need it.

As for personal attacks your rhetoric speaks vollumes. I challenge you to open your board. You won't because you are a coward and this piece was aimed at you.

FYI David Horowitz was impressed with my original post Homosexuality
Israel and Muslim Nations . He asked me to send it to him personaly. Thank you for your part in educating America about how mindless the left can be.

beakerkin said...

To Kafkaesqe

I respectfuly disagree with your assertion. This post is about 1/3 done and there is more to follow.

Jewish people have a distinct culture language and tie to the land of Israel that predates Islam by 2600 years. The states in the region were formed by Sykes- Picot in 1916. There is zero difference betweem most Saudis,Syrian, Jordanians and residents of the Sunni Triangle. There was a defacto population exchange and the Jews absorbed their kin the Arabs did not.

Muslims have created a series of ethnically cleansed states read the demographics of Jordan, Turkey and Pakistan . Then compare it to Israel and India. I encourage you to visit Freedom House and look at Israel's raing and compare it with Turkey. Israel is rated freer than almost any Muslim Country.

I strongly disagee with your assesment of Christianity. Christians and Jews had no major problems getting along till Islam was added. Islam is in conflict with Bhudaism in several regions.

The problem is that there has been a denial of basic Islamic history. I welcome the efforts of Stephen Schwartz to purge his faith of the Wahabi Nihlists . Yet I remain somewhat sceptical on this.

You may be right that I overswept by calling the post The Cowardly Left . This post was in response to the board of the Recidivist,

It is still a work in progress.

I welcome your imput.

Thank You.

Warren said...

Mr Jordan said,
The fact that he posts invalid and politically biased sources with little or no credibility does not preclude him from being a troll. If anything that only goes to support the notion that he is a troll.

Calling Beakerkin a troll is just a conveyance enabling you to dismiss his evidence without addressing the factual content. If he uses sources that you find questionable, imagine our chagrin when you lot use socialist tripe and pure propaganda from sources funded and directed by the so-called "Palestinian" State.

As for you rather chariming Martin Luther King quote, you kind of miss the point that the nature of Zionism has changed a great deal since that was supposedly said - nor does the fact that he said it actually make it true.

I didn't miss the point, you missed the boat! The nature of Zionism has changed for sure. If anything, it has moderated. The same cannot be said of the goals and views of the Muslim Brotherhood et al.

What Dr King said was an opinion, an opinion by a person in a place to know first hand what racism is. In other words, the opinion of an acknowledged expert.

Nor does it even say that anyone who claims to be anti-Zionist is also anti-Semitic.

All I'm asking is that you think about it by stepping outside of the narrow framework of Anti-Israeli propaganda. Regardless of the intention, the outcome is the same.

The irony is had Martin Lurther been alive today he would have despised what Zionism has turned in to, and would have been the first one to admit that Zionist were indeed facist pigs. He would have seen sights in which when Sharon visits London, there are far more anti-Zionsit Jews out on the streets demonstrating against him that there are Muslims and Palesttinians. Yet according to you being anti-Zionist is being anti-semitic. What nonsense.

You make an assertion you have no way of proving then an illogical assertion about more Jews than... then lapse into the dogmatic invective of the reactionary left, i.e. 'fascist pigs', then dismiss my post as nonsense. You are dismissing Dr Kings words, not mine.

Who is speaking nonsense to whom?

Mark Jordan said...

Warren claims that calling Beakerkin a troll is just a conveyance enabling me to dismiss his evidence without addressing the factual content.

This is complete nonsense, for Bekarkin provides not a single shred of credible evidence to support anything that he has said.

EVERY time he is challenged to back up what he says, the snivelling coward avoids to point and responds to claims that have never been made.

As for Beakerkin claiming that David Horowitz was impressed by his post on homosexuality: DREAM ON.

Mark Jordan said...

All I'm asking is that you think about it by stepping outside of the narrow framework of Anti-Israeli propaganda. Regardless of the intention, the outcome is the sameMaybe people would if you would step outside your narrow framework of Zionist propaganda.

beakerkin said...

Answer Question One what is the basis for Palestinian Identity.What differentiates a Palestinian from a Jordanian , Saudi, Syrian and residents of the Sunni Triange.

2 Have you gone to Freedom House and checked the country ratings ?
Why do you hold Israel to such lofty standards ?

Making a Jewish State the only country on the planet that your rules apply to is bigotry.

You have not proven there is a Palestinian ethnicity. Nor have you proven that their claim is superior to Assyrians , Copts , Commanche or a fictitional Nation of Brooklyn.

Lets start from there. Do come back again.

Redbeard said...

Mark, judging by your comments, Zionism sounds absolutely awful. I guess I need a better definition of it than I've been using. All this time I've thought it only meant support for Israel to exist. You know, like what the UN did back in 1947 when it created both a Jewish and an Arab state in the odd bit of the middle east that the Brits called Palestine.

Wait... what's that you say? The Arabs turned down their sovereign state? That doesn't make any sense. Haven't the Arabs been whining about wanting a separate Palestinian state all this time? Makes one wonder if their ultimate goal is not their own separate state, but to eliminate Israel altogether. Surely not. Say it ain't so, Joe!