Tuesday, March 22, 2005

Ham Handed Allies and Labotomy Detractors

I enjoy posting on Front Page forum in articles that Stephen Schwartz writes. He is a talented articulate author and I sometimes agree with him. I may disagree with him but at all times I respect his intellect and dedication to his craft,people and religion. Schwartz is a Muslim who wants to have his faith purged of the Nihlistic death cult called Wahabism. The highest praise is the respect of your opponent and as an opponent I respect Schwartz.I often agree with him on a variety of issues. The greatest threat is a needless war of Civilizations. Needless death suits no human with a soul.
I depart from Schwartz on Islamic history and the legacy of that history. Any ill of Western Civ has an equal or greater Islamic corrolary. This renders the Zinn styled indict a civilization game effective in debating this topic. Schwartz is an intellectual and would likely remark that we can do this with any culture. The Recidivist is too illucid to notice the point. We can not attack the West with charges of Colonialism,Slavery, Ethocide and genocide without an equal look at Islamic history. If my attacks on Islamic culture are bigoted than his attacks on Western Civ are bigoted.
I want to be honest with my views on the Balkans. I called a family friend in the Jewish community of Sarajevo. I was prepared to level Schwartz with a full scale refutation. The simple problem is that the Jews of Sarajevo agreed with Schwartz. I had the choice of telling the truth or silence. In good faith there was no choice because so many people lined up to wrongly attack Scwartz.
The most fervent of these attackers is a man called Michael Averko. I am a natural ally and he did the impossible pushed me into the other camp. His comparison of Israeli tactics in Jenin and Russian tactics in Grozny are illucid. This is not a critque of Russia. Unfortunately, this is what the world does when presented with this type of problem.The fact is the Israelis use less force than in similar situations world wide . This is not enough for the Israel bashers who hold Israel to absurdly high standards. I have not seen a single post on Chechnya , Assyrians , Copts or Tibetians in the Recidivists blog. I have seen mindless post on Zionism and he deems all those who disagree with him bigots.
Averko would have done himself a favor by sticking with History.Serbs are indigenous to the region and Albanians are not. The province has always been a part of Serbia and should be administered as such. He could have stated the numbers were overstated and stuck with Trifkovic. He is on solid ground when he describes Bosnian and Croation collaberation with the Nazis. Any advantage he had he lost while calling a 70 year old family friend a moron.
I have my differences with Schwartz especially on Assyria and the Copts. I support their right to independence as indigenous people . His position on the Armenian - Assyrian genocide is disturbing. Toynbee is a reliable historian and should be taken into perspective.
Still the message of the post is that some opponents deserve respect like Schwartz who is articulate . Other opponents like the lazy bigoted Recidivist deserve contempt. Some allies like Red Beard and Warren deserve respect on thoughtful contributions. Other allies like Averko need to do their homework and should be kept at an arms length.
I hope each and every day Schwartz is right. For if he is fighting windmills mankind will inherit death.


beakerkin said...

A correction from Stephen Schwartz and noted. He tends to be right on these matters.

Ethnic Albanians may have arrived before Serbs making this issue a mess. Shwartz does know his material.

If I make a mistake I will correct it.

Schwartz also never attacks Western Civ. This is the work of the Recidivist and other dolts.Schwartz uses facts and logic and thus my respect.

Warren said...

It is strange how those of the looney left, (the followers of Chomski, Zinn, et al), attack Western civilization while its very existence has enabled them to do so.

Are they that devoid of reason and ignorant of history, or are they merely mouthing the moos of the cattle they herd with?

We conservatives are constantly critisied by them as being ignorant and seeing only black and white with no shades of grey.

They are like someone who goes through the salad bar and pronounces it disgusting because among the 200 items there was one that they did not like.

I am thoroughly bemused by their narrow focus and short sighted views. They can zoom in on an aberration and focus in on it to the exclusion of everything else. Even if proves, the supposed action never happened, they are tenacious in their hold as any fundamentalist on an article of faith. They are even willing to suspend the laws of logic, as if, it is so because they believe.

Imagine my chagrin, when I first found out that logic and manners were "tools of oppression"!

So I avoid any mention of logic, although they are quite willing to bring up the word even if they don't understand it. I also forgo manners unless I see some hint that they know what manners are.

Another gem I have ran across is the canard that more people have died...

When disproved by citing the democide figures for Communist and totalitarian States, I was once offered this pearl of wisdom:"That's different, they were opposing liberation!"

kafkaesq said...


Funny, I could post the same thing, substituting "liberal" for "conservative."

Wackos exist on both sides. Your point?

beakerkin said...

Kafka you do have a point. However,
Warren and I are commited to real debate. We welcome all here and back our views.
Conservatives in general are more tollerant than liberals. Front Page Magazine has an open forum. Other sites are loosely policed.

I encourage people that disagree with me. Schwartz , Horowitz , Yeagley and others read this blog.
A conservative relishes free speech and accepts it excesses.

I defended Schwartz because I could not let a calumny stand. I respect those I disagree with like yourself and the Chemist.

I do not respect totalitarians of any stripe. Where do speech codes typically come from ?

Nonetheless I thank you for your kind words.

Warren said...

Kafkaesq Said:
" Funny, I could post the same thing, substituting "liberal" for "conservative."

Wackos exist on both sides. Your point?"

In the first place, there is no mention of liberal in my post.
In the second, there is a comma after loony left, not between loony and left.
In the third, conservative is mentioned once and if you substituted the word, liberal, for it; people would laugh.

If you are a follower of Chomsky or believe that Zinn writes accurate and balanced accounts of history, I was speaking of you.

It is not my fault that armchair Communists and limousine Socialist have co-opted the labels of Liberal and Progressive If you wish to share the banner with them, its your problem, not mine. I am not the one who decided that these people would become the base of the Democrat Party.

Although I am still a registered Democrat, I refuse to vote for anyone who would even suggest that moveon or ANSWER are legitimate, let alone rational, voices of the majority of Americans.

But go ahead, re-write it and let's see how it turns out.

Quite frankly, I see no difference between the far "right" and the far "left". Although there stated goals might be different, they seem to find a lot of common ground. The difference between State Socialism and National Socialism, is little more than the difference between state and national. To those who are forced to live under them the net results are the same, Totalitarianism.

kafkaesq said...


Good comment about the extremes of either party leading to totalitarianism. I agree wholeheartedly.

You have to admit that your comment compares "looney left" to "we conservatives" in such a way that implies that these are the only two options. They are not. Maybe I read too much into your sentance construction. To be fair, next time if you're going to discuss opposing views don't compare the fringe element of the left to the average moderate conservative.

My real problem with the GOP is that the fringe-right religious nut-jobs have taken over the party leadership. From Bush to DeLay to Frist.

Warren said...

You have to admit that your comment compares "looney left" to "we conservatives" in such a way that implies that these are the only two options.

No, I would say that it shows you realize that there is a problem in the Democrat party.

Until it quits pandering to the far left, it will continue.

Conservatives are constantly under attack from the far left and quite frankly, it erks me to have my motives or intelligence impuned by people who glory in their ignorance.

[sarcasm]Yea, the Democrat Party is going to get my vote![/sarcasm]

I don't agree with your characterization of Bush, Frist or DeLay.

Its just more of the same, i.e. (Republicans will starve the poor, end Social Security and throw old people out on the streets, Republicans will cause a return to lynchings, more James Byrds, more church burnings and bring back Jim Crow).