Saturday, July 12, 2008

Personal Liberty and Madness

I want to point out the oddity of France denying a woman citizenship over the religious practice of wearing a Burka. I am glad my government does not have any similar insanity based upon invasion of a person's religious views. The applicant wears this garb through her own free will. Will the French employ this on Rastafarians or Chasidic Jews next?

I do understand that complaints about official ID are 100% legitimate. Law enforcement requires those who travel and drive be readily identifiable by law enforcement officers. These are privilages and not rights.

I wonder what take Stephen Schwartz of the Center for Islamic Pluralism will take on this.

As far as Sharia in America, there should be zero objection to Muslims maintaining laws that pertain to Muslims only such as dietary laws. The question of matrimonial or family law is another matter. Division of marital assets should be governed by a civil authority. There should be severe penalties on clergymen who create polygamous unions regardless of religious order.All treligious marriages should be required by law to be registered with the state.

15 comments:

Alice Gorable said...

...and eight year old girls should not be married off to pedophiles...

Devon said...

if they come over here and live in this country they need to live by the laws that have been set down in this country. If I were to go over to another country and wnated to live by the laws i had in this country they would not let me.

The Pagan Temple said...

Wait a minute now, a veil is one thing, a headscarf is one thing, but a burkha is something else again. I ain't believing for one New York minute or even for a Superman 1,000,000 ad nanosecond that any sane woman consciously and willingly chooses to wear some kind of garb like that.

Poor France gets hell no matter what they do. If we ain't bitching at them for being too "liberal" we turn around and bitch at them for being too "conservative".

A burkha is the modern day equivalent of ankle chains as far as I'm concerned.

beakerkin said...

Devon

I do agree with you. However, choice of clothing is not an issue to deny Citizenship over.

Alice

I would think that Muslims would respect the age of consent laws. The position of the CIP is to respect Western law. I would point out that France, the UK and sections of NYC do have a polygamy problem. Are we prepared for the consequences of enforcing these laws.

Example Immigrant A is wed against her will to US citizen B. She can not go home to country X.

Are some of you willing to settle her at our expense and retrain her?
All practical applications of law do not exist in a vacum and have consequences.

Beamish said...

Beak,

Sometimes you gotta hit someone in the head hard enough to splatter their moral high ground onto the pavement.

kevin said...

""The applicant wears this garb through her own free will.""

And if she says otherwise her husband or closest male relative is free to contemplate honorcide.

Z said...

I hope to hell we find the guts to do this, too.

I SORT OF see your point, Beak, but I think Beamish and Pagan are right.
Actually, her appplying in that garb should be upsetting; it's agenda-driven and NUTS. She can wear whatever she wants to wear, but it shouldn't be honored by anything. it's disgusting and threatening to ANY country which values equality and a person's dignity.

Always On Watch said...

Beak,
I want to point out the oddity of France denying a woman citizenship over the religious practice of wearing a Burka.

We disagree on that one, my friend.

Both the burqa and the hijab symbolize Islamic misogyny and are statements to others as to the specialness of Muslims over the rest of us. In addition, "free will" doesn't always apply as many muslimatoons are forced to wear their outfits.

The burqa is much more than a mere religious symbol.

Mark Alexander can fill you in on the details.

Beamish said...

According to Islamic theology, the hijab / veil / full body tent burka is to protect a woman from being raped.

You see, whenever even the forehead of a woman is exposed to the sight of a Muslim man, his first thought is to rape her.... and it's her fault for putting that thought in his head.

If there is a more barbaric culture on Earth than Islamic culture, it does real well at staying out of the news.

beakerkin said...

Where is our commitment to liberty?
I do not want a matter as serious as citizenship determined by clothing. Are Rastafarians and Hasidic Jews next in line.

I do understand that there may be instances of co-ercion. However, depriving a person of citizenship based on clothing is a violation of the First Amendment.

Do not cheapen citizenship with arbitratry judgemental criteria that assaults our liberty.

Ducky's here said...

France made a decision not to grant citizenship because of a failure to integrate to French culture and Beak mistakes this for a religious issue.

The burqa is a CULTURAL issue not religious.

Always On Watch said...

Beak,
It's not just the commitment to liberty which is at stake and the issue here.

Interestingly, I used to feel exactly as you on this issue -- until I spoke at length with Dr. Tawfik Hamid last year. As a Muslim, he has inside insights which you and I don't have. I included some of what he said in my earlier comment to this post.

The Pagan Temple said...

"Where is our commitment to liberty?"

Speaking for myself, it comes wrapped in the American flag and the constitution, and is exclusive of any culture, religion, or ideology that has respect for neither.

"I do not want a matter as serious as citizenship determined by clothing. Are Rastafarians and Hasidic Jews next in line."

If they have a tendency to murder their wives and children when they don't conform to their codes, yes.

"I do understand that there may be instances of co-ercion. However, depriving a person of citizenship based on clothing is a violation of the First Amendment."

Nobody is guaranteed citizenship when they come here. They have to wait in line for years at times before they finally become citizens. Somebody that forces their wives to wear a burkha has already demonstrated a profound disrespect for the principles of liberty. What right do they have to come here? What right do they have to be citizens? There is no such guaranteed right for anybody.

"Do not cheapen citizenship with arbitratry judgemental criteria that assaults our liberty".

Do not cheapen citizenship by giving it to a bunch of god damned savages that don't deserve it.

The Merry Widow said...

Granting citizenship is a priviledge NOT a right! France has the right, as a sovereign country, to determine who is granted the priviledge of citizenship. By wearing the burka, this woman is proclaiming loud and clear that; SHE WILL NOT ASSIMILATE EVER, she feels superior and is in a position to dictate to the sovereign state, and if she was coerced, she will NOT BE ABLE TO FULFILL HER PART OF THE COVENANT WITH THE STATE!
Sorry, France has the right to withhold the priviledge.
For the safety of the state, the protection of it's sovereignty and for the ultimate protection of those CITIZENS who are IN COVENANT with that state.
She can go home now.

tmw

Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.