Wednesday, July 16, 2008

Of Burkha's Beakers and Liberty

I do a understand the unique problems a Burkha presents.

1 The Burka presents a security problem. There is a legitimate concern as the disguise has been used to evade security.

HOWEVER, so have wigs, toupes, people dressing in the inappropriate gender. The question may be a matter of degree and be 100% valid.

The law aimed at the KKK raises a different point about freedom of speech and anonymity.

I am somewhat befuddled about the concern of Burkha's and integration. Hasidic Jews and the Amish do not seek to integrate and produce similar reactions. I want people to respect others right to be different. This is a problem with some Muslims who think they can dictate items as trivial as a police dog ad.

There is something wrong with this situation where I am oddly to the left of Pagan and gasp the Duck.

I want to discuss the following
1 respect vs assimilation
2 is clothing a free speech/ religion issue
3 The unique challenge of the Burkha to society


The Pagan Temple said...

Beak, you'd be surprised how conservative I am on quite a few issues. On this issue, I actually consider myself quite tolerant, surprisingly so, to grudgingly make allowances for veils and hajibs, or hijabs, or however the hell you say it.

The burkha is something else again. I don't believe for one second no sane woman would choose to wear some kind of garb like that without having been browbeaten into it.

Tolerance isn't always a good thing. I'm a big believer in staying out of the way other people run their countries as long as they don't mess with us. That's not an endorsement of them, just a recognition that we can't save the world, nor should we try to change anyone unless we have some compelling interest at stake.

But them coming over here and importing crap like that is an entirely different matter. If they can't change and adjust to the American way of life and treat their women and children with respect (and their young boys too, for that matter), then the hell with them. Let the whole damn group of them rot.

No, I don't want to let them come here on the off chance they might "change their ways". Yeah, they might after two or three hundred years, which I seriously doubt. Even if they did, sorry, that's not a time frame that is acceptable to me.

A woman that chooses to dress in such a manner has already demonstrated that she has to be at least half crazy. Come over to my site when you get a chance. The first post you will see is one with a picture I borrowed from a site that has a bunch of pictures that is actual Islamic art, and depicts precisely the Islamic belief in regards to their women and how they should act, and what will happen to them if they don't do so.

Bear in mind that these pictures aren't something a group of bloodthirsty killers thought up while hiding in their caves waiting for the chance to wage jihad on some evil infidel.

This is art that was sanctioned and patronized by the ruling elite of Islamic countries at the height of Islamic "civilization". It is mind-boggling.

Anonymous said...

Sorry. people should NOT be allowed to wear masks. "Anonymity" in public is NOT a right.

Rob said...

Beak, I tend to agree with you on this issue.

If a Woman chooses to wear a burka, that is her Choice, I don't believe it is my right to tell someone else what can and cannot do, even if I feel it is symbol of a control factor by her culture.

I say don't get hung up on fashion...either we believe in freedom or we don't.

Z said...

Beak, I do see your point; we should allow people to follow whatever their religion tells them to do.

BUT, why NOW? Why have muslims been here for years and only now, after 9/11, the Burka's coming up like this? Maybe nobody cared before because muslims didn't seem so threatening before? It's a 'challenge' as you put it because Americans are a tad bit skittish these days about muslims..why shouldn't they be? ESPECIALLY a woman SO fundamentalist that she'd wear this awful stuff? Who does she hang with if she's THAT fundamentalist..nominal muslims? I think not. WHY don't muslims understand our nervousness and do all they can to make US feel more comfortable instead of relying on US to bend over backwards and make allowances........?

This is a cultural AND religious thing; we DO have an American culture, and it's a Judeo-Christian culture which doesn't require let alone demand its women to live in such oppression as a black robe from head to foot with slits for eyes! We trust our men more than that, right!? If they don't trust their men, can WE?

We're not allowed to wear Western clothing in many Arab countries even as tourists! Yet, I CRINGED when Diane Sawyer wore PANTS on an Arab base in Saudi Arabia! She showed no sensitivity OR respect and I believe muslim women are doing the exact same thing...not showing us respect for OUR WAYS.

WHY must WE do the tolerating of such 'in your face' behavior? Sure, if they're THAT devout, they can stay hidden..but why would you come to an open society to be oppressed at a time when you know very well this same society is suspect of you and your ways?

I'll just say this again "What does one have to DO around this county to get respect, kill 3000 people?".

Beamish said...

Functioning in any society is a two way street.

I assume the hangup at the North Algerian border is some issue where a identification photograph must be taken and Shehasa Hirsutetwat isn't allowed to take off her burka body tent for anyone not a male member of her family.

Forgive me my irrational hatred of France for a moment, as I usually don't follow any topics related to France if I can help it.

Ponder a time when Greenpeace tried to park their boat on top of a French nuclear weapons test site in the South Pacific and they phoned up Greenpeace and told them that they really oughta move their boat from the test site before the bomb goes off (and sorry this message was late.. good luck). Needless to say, Greenpeace got the f out of there.

Ballsy, yet did not require much effort.

The sign on the door says "Nous montrer vos seins," so off with the burka or you don't get to visit France.

kevin said...

An example of Burka logic.

'Nearly two-thirds of Egyptian men admit to having sexually harassed women in the most populous Arab country, and a majority say women themselves are to blame for their maltreatment, a survey showed on Thursday.'

You see? If these sluts weren't walking around with their faces exposed this sorta thing would never happen. In Saudi Arabia, the women aren't even allowed outside without a male relative present. It's a lot better of women this way and these ideas need to be exported to the West.

That's what the Burka is all about . It has nothing to do with a 'woman's right" to choose anything. It's about removing those rights completely.