I want to state that I have never heard of Rev Spitz. If I am hell bound because of my support of gays to live as human beings I take my fate. In my view human beings are entitled to dignity and respect. This respect is only lost by criminal behavior such as killing, stealing or advocating class genocide.
Justin and Rob are my friends end of discussion. Why do some of us define such a wonderful person as Justin on his sexual preference. Do some of forget his military service, humanity, class and friendship. Whatever sins I have done ( and there are some whoppers) are far more serious than those of Justin and or Rob. I accept my fate
and am resigned to it.
I certainly am aware of the quotes from Leviticus. I am not so certain what those quotes in Romans refer to. Perhaps Justin, Junglemom or someone else will enlighten me. I want to separate MZ from this conversation as he really does follow the laws of the Old Testament. In his framework the quotes from Leviticus are clear. In defense of MZ, he has never advocated physical violence against gays. Moreover, I did fight with him several times on this issue.
Christians do not take the words of the Old Testament literally. Moreover, why is there such bitter hatred for that sin and not Onanist or Adulterers. At one point in our live 95% of us will admit to Onanism and the other 5% probably will lie to the end. Many of us have had premarital and extra marital sex. Some of us will even admit to recreational sex. I am guilty on all counts and this goes above and beyond anything done by Justin who is in a committed relationship.
That being said I want to move onto friendly fire. There is no comparison between Fundamentalists Christians and their Muslim counterpart. We can pull out an odd case like an Eric Rudolf of a Baruch Goldstein because such behavior is completely out of character with Christians or Jews. How many of you can Name a Muslim Terrorist not named Abu Abbas, Mohammad Attah or Imad Mugniyah. One certainly can not name many rank and file types beyond a Richard Reid or John Walker Lindh.
Moreover, if one were to discuss this matter in a serious debate with a Stephen Schwartz he would point out George Habash and some other Christians were heavily involved in some of the acts we assume to be Islamic terror. My response is that the context of the PLO was always Marxist and Pan Arab, not Islamacist.
I do not know what is in the heart of a man who made terrible remarks about gays causing 9-11. However, he did apologize and never did repeat this stupidity. I will contrast this with commies blaming Jews for 9-11 and still talking about secret cabals today.
I seriously want to know where all these Gay bar bombings are. 167 made the claim that these were common in Israel and could not produce a single one when challenged.
There may have been a gay bar or two bombed. I would urge us to look at the whole story. The fact that a gay bar was firebombed does not impute motivation. This may be another myth like the Black Churches burning non story. I did a Google search and did not see a rash of these crimes. These are serious crimes that do not happen every day.
I do not see a large Christian movement towards theocracy. I do admit there is some hateful rhetoric on both sides. However, we are Americans and should be adult enough to understand the basis of our laws is Civil.
I have read Rev Spitz site and am still in utter astonishment. I want to point out that I have never been a person who has ever advocated the ends justified the means.
This mentality is exactly the reason I fight communists who would kill millions for a fake utopia. I understand many of us do not like abortion. My dissent is that Roe vs Wade is a deeply flawed precedent. I also understand the passion of some opponents and do support the right of pro life people to exercise their First Amendment rights peaceably. I do not defend extra judicial assassinations, bombings and vigilantism from pro lifers or Bill Ayers style traitors.