Thursday, September 25, 2008

Stephen Schwartz the Other Islam Confused

I am reading the second chapter and it is somewhat confusing. Many of the Sufi orders appear to be humanistic blends of Islam and regional religions. We have a stereotype of the Pagan as inhuman and uncouth. However, this is inaccurate and while human sacrifice
was a real phenomena it did not produce endless jihad or mindless genocide ala communism or Nazism.

The question of what is Islam will be decided by Muslims themselves. The question of originalist is not a Muslim question itself but is something that crosses denominations. The mess at the Anglican church is also largely originalists vs Marxist hacks. This is seen in Judaism with Modern Orthodox vs the reform and some of the reform movement is Marxist.


The Pagan Temple said...

Screw all these raghead motherfuckers. Most of western civilizations advances and culture is directly traceable back to ancient Greece and Rome-PAGAN CULTURES!

By the way, anything Arabs and Muslims have that might be considered signs of any kind of advanced civilization also came from the Greeks and Romans. Either that or they stole it from somebody else.

What have the dip-shit Muslims given us that they haven't stolen, or "adapted" from somebody else? The Ottomons stole their architecture, their math, sciences, almost everything you want to think of from the Byzantines, who got most of their culture, again, from the Greeks and Romans.

Let's see, what have the Arabs and Muslims actually invented?

International Relations-Jizra

These sons of bitches have contributed absolutely nothing to humanity, and now they lump all pagan cultures together in a demeaning manner? Screw them.

I never said it at the time, but you were wrong when you said we shouldn't bomb Mecca. The only question in my mind is when is the best time to nuke the worthless place.

I vote for the middle of Ramadan.

Anonymous said...

Sufism is the "starter" religion in areas under conquest.

troutsky said...

Tough crowd! Marxists are a lot of places but Anglican church and reform Judaism seem...unlikely. I appreciate your reading matter,I hang with some Sufis and they seem quite happy.

The Merry Widow said...

The mainline denominations ALL have their "red" wings. Usually disguised under; labor, immigration or some other such "cover"...
Sufis also believe that Jews should be eradicated, and they are quite anti-semitic in thei own way, they are just less likely to start something violent.
Good morning, G*D bless and Maranatha!


Ducky's here said...

hey pagan, a big boost to the advances in the Renaissance were due to double entry bookkeeping from the Muslims.

That's one example of very many.

Pitch till you win.

The Pagan Temple said...


The DeMedicis were Muslims? That's news to me. The Ottomans prospered mostly because of the Jews and Greeks in lands under their control that did all the real work of finance and business while they sat around smoking water pipes and raping young European princes sent to them as hostages.

Arabs are good poets, I'll grant you that. I hate to break it to you, but they damn sure didn't invent poetry. To hear them tell it, they invented everything from astrology, astronomy, science, math, and everything else that requires some form of intellect.

Uh, no they didn't, everything they did was adapted from some other culture, usually traceable back to pagan ones. For them to try to paint ancient cultures that they stole from as inferior and barbaric is almost laughably ludicrous if it wasn't so maddeningly arrogant.

Ducky's here said...

No pagan, catch a clue.

The Italian city states were TRADERS. That's how they got the money to pay for really cool art and stuff.

TRADING required double entry bookkeeping which the obtained from Muslims. See, simple. They came into contact with the system by trading with MUSLIMS. Not Greeks, not Jews but MUSLIMS. Git it?

Steve Harkonnen said...


Pagan has it right and you only have it partially correct. After reading his post he is historically accurate in his statement.

The Pagan Temple said...


Okay, I see what you mean now. So score one for them. It's still pretty fucking arrogant for them to talk about any other culture being barbaric when you look at their entire history.

Now, about this "double-entry bookkeeping". Where did they get that from? Where did the Muslims get it from, I mean? Why is it I seem to suspect a Jewish influence here as well? There were Jews and Greeks in the the Ottomons domains, and those coincidentally seemed to be the most prosperous of all their territories. I sense a connection.

As for the Ottomans in particular, I will say they did make a fine contribution in the water pipe, but I'm afraid that's about it.

Ducky's here said...

Why is it I seem to suspect a Jewish influence here as well?


Possibly because you are constitutionally incapable of not seeing the Jews as the source of all knowledge?

The Pagan Temple said...


Not at all. They don't hold a candle to the Greeks and Romans in a lot of respects, probably not the Chinese and Japanese either, maybe not even the ancient Celts as a general rule.

Admittedly the ancient Hebrews were very advanced in certain respects for their time, but the key is, they continued to advance. Still no, I don't see them as "the source of all knowledge".

I just put them several thousand leagues above people whose most advanced cultural underpinnings happened to have been, at least for the most part-let's be nice and call it "adapted" from other cultures.

Check, aaaaand-


Ducky's here said...

On the topic of reading lists:

Couric: And when it comes to establishing your worldview, I was curious, what newspapers and magazines did you regularly read before you were tapped for this to stay informed and to understand the world?

Palin: I’ve read most of them, again with a great appreciation for the press, for the media.

Couric: What, specifically?

Palin: Um, all of them, any of them that have been in front of me all these years.

Couric: Can you name a few?

Palin: I have a vast variety of sources where we get our news, too. Alaska isn’t a foreign country, where it’s kind of suggested, “Wow, how could you keep in touch with what the rest of Washington, D.C., may be thinking when you live up there in Alaska?” Believe me, Alaska is like a microcosm of America.


Wonder if she subscribes to The Nation?

The Pagan Temple said...


She may or may not read a lot of elitist rags, but I bet she knows a hell of a lot more about how you, me, and most other people live than Barak Obama and Joe Biden (and for that matter John McCain) do. As far as I'm concerned that more than makes up for it.

Ducky's here said...

I will guarantee that Sarah Palin doesn't know an anamorphic lens from a curtain shot.

Neither do the others but it might interest Obama or Biden.

Sarah Palin has no curiosity at all about the world and would be very likely to be unable to accept that Muslims developed double entry bookkeeping which was critical to the rise of Italian trading states in the Renaissance.

She is what this nation of dimbulbs deserves, however.

She does know how to shoot moose but New Englanders know that moose are docile animals and that hunting them isn't a matter of skill.