When one talks about a concept or an idea most people grasp the familiar. Thus when pondering the paradox of Ron Paul and the more traditional Liberterians the more I read about Murray Rothbard the more the idiocy and vile views of Ron Paul seem to be the source.
Some basics about libertarianism are illustrated in the classic example of lining up 20 people and asking them to jump. As twenty people have different abilities we would get a natural and expected variation. If we force equality everything must go to the lowest common denominator. Forced equality naturally provides lower overall results and is not optimal.
From a libertarian as well as common sense perspective everyone should have the same opportunity to jump to the best of their ability.
When reading about Murray Rothbards racism this bears zero resemblance to familiar libertarians one is apt to encounter at a Tea Party event, unless they are a Paulbot cultist like FJ. When Rothbard writes of a "parasitic underclass" this harkens is familiar to the term untamenschen. History has shown that what we dehumanize we can kill quickly. Rothbard spoke about an alliance with David Duke types that seems to be the basis of Stormfront ads for Ron Paul.
It seems to fully grasp the odd Ron Paul one needs to examine Lew Rockwell and Murray Rothbard. Some of the Paulbot antics does resemble a classic cult. One can show overwhelming evidence of the antisemitism of Ron Paul to a follower and get word games with the term
"concentration camp". Does a reasonnable person think Paul was trying to invoke the Boer War in connection with Gaza or the Israel as Nazi theme.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
43 comments:
I'm not going to participate in your slandering of FJ.
Bag on Murray Rothbard, Ron Paul, Looney Rockwell... they can be shown to be everything you claim and more.
But not FJ. You've become unhinged. It's bad enough that I had to follow up behind you tagging me in and clarify that I was NOT arguing with FJ for the same reasons you are.
You're clinging to a false assumption about FJ.
And to be honest, if you think I'm going to sit back and concur with you slandering my friend and sometime intellectual sparring partner FJ, you're clinging to a false assumption about me.
Really Mr B
Why did FJ create a sock puppet to advance Paulism? If he was not ashamed of this quirk he would have advanced his thesis under the handle FJ.
When FJ uses a sock puppet to advance something we are left to guess his motivations. Nobody was aware of this deception until you and the Pagan alerted everyone. The blog host Z and his buddy Elmer
were not aware of this deception.
You can decode what version of Farmer John is correct. I know the score and it doesn't take rocket science, pun intended.
FJ has a need to be respected as an authority. Thus if he comes out under his own name as a Paulbot
he fears losing friends. So he uses
the tool Conservative Joe and when caught gives long winded rationalizations I am not a Paulbot but......
Feel free to look at the Lord article and reread his comments in persona as Conservative Joe. Do the rants about Limbaugh, Levin and so forth seem familiar.
When you look at the source of the Ron Paul, Lew Rockwell, Murray Rothbard Sormfront and Code Pink Nexus the game is quite clear. The Farmer knows who wrote those racist news letters and it wasn't
Anthony Wiener.
Beak-
Come up for air for a minute. EVERYBODY that knows FJ knows he has more than one account. I wasn't "alerting" anybody, I was just surprised you didn't already know it.
You're taking his multiple accounts as an attempt at deception. I don't see it that way. He has accounts that focus on different issues.
For example, Speedy G is mostly about Latino issues, and south of the border stuff. Titan Uranus is devoted to homosexuals, basically anti-homosexual activism.
So on and so forth. I've been reading all this back and forth on FJ's main blog and don't know what to make of it, other than I wasn't about to wade into that shit.
You've gone so far overboard it even sounded once like you was defending Renegade Eye. At that point I went to bed.
You can decode what version of Farmer John is correct. I know the score and it doesn't take rocket science, pun intended.
I take FJ at his word that he's not a Ron Paul supporter, that he wouldn't vote for him, and even that he feels Ron Paul is an idiot.
I also take him at his word and through all the experience I've had alongside him debating actual pro-terrorist / anti-Israel twits that he's not an anti-Semite. That he disagrees that Ron Paul is an anti-Semite does not make him an anti-Semite.
In my eyes, he held up Ron Paul as a target to see how we'd hit him. Now he knows. I think everybody's case against Ron Paul is improved in the doing, including FJ's, if he's calling him an idiot, which I suspect was his view in the first place and all along.
Like I said, he's an intellectual sparring partner, at least of mine. And just as contrarian as I've ever known him to be. Through the years we've bounced far more ideas off each other than we've fought over.
I'm sorry you can't read FJ as I do. If you can turn a neo-classical Leo Strauss follower into an anti-Semite, I guess anybody can.
Most people disparage Straussians as "neo-cons" though, oddly enough, and we all know the usual subtext of that label. FJ's more likely to be confused for a Jew than to attack one, LOL.
Mr B
You do know many things about me. I do not write what I do not believe.
The Farmer plays a cat and mouse game except he does not like it when he is the mouse. He spent his time baiting you and manipulating you and attempting to pit us against each other.
These are the facts as admitted by Farmer John who has been less than truthful. He was bitching and moaning about a smackdown I gave him eight years ago. Whatever I did
I did it well and he will forever carry it around.
The problem is the Farmer is not as quite as clever as he thinks he is. His problem was very similar to that of Leopold and Loeb. He thinks he is smarter than everyone
else and overestimates his ability.
There was another person playing mind games that day Mr B. Unlike FJ his opponent is well trained in dealing with his kind. He confessed
what he thought was his victory moment. He failed to grasp that my memory is quite better than his. All you have is his word that he did not do the things.
FJ has a white whale that he could never hit his white whale was Donal. Donal outsmarted him at every turn and he is still crying.
I do not know who or where this person is and could care less.
You are also forgetting where he attempted to insinuate that you had something to hide. His tactic is divide and conquer and manipulate.
MR B
Every person has a writing style and I know Socrates very well. We repeat phrases and have a certain sentence structure. I stopped doing this long ago as I thought the mental case had
gone onto bigger and better things.
Known facts about the criminal Socrates
1) Extensively uses sock puppets
2) Tends to wax of on cut and paste
philosophy.
3) Never shows an inkling of a human life.
4) Comments that are verbose but mean nothing.
5) needs to seem like an authority figure
Does this sound familiar to you?
I will not go into his writing quirks. I will need them as he needs to follow me. Eight years following a person that wants nothing to do with him is a long time. He doesn't handle rejection
well and is always yearning to test his foes. I left another place where I hung my hat to get away from this loon. Just keep this nut far from me.
The Farmer did write the stuff I described.
I thought Farmer's best ID was Seymour Butts.
Beak you throw down these accusations of criminal as easily as you play the antisemite card.
I remember when you accused Ren of issuing threats against some conservative blogger. You are pretty well none for out of control hyperbole, bobo.
It's all utter nonsense and you really need to step back and take a deep bath. You seem to be about the only one in the room who didn't know he post's under several aliases.
Eight years following a person that wants nothing to do with him is a long time. He doesn't handle rejection ...
----------
You two butt buddies?
Pagan
I will say this about Renegade Eye.
In the end he regretted asking me to leave and did ask me to return later.
I had no intention of going back and the belief I was banned there suited my purposes more than slapping around MILF from Lebanon or Larry Gamboner.
My philosophy is like that expressed by John Wayne in the shootist. There are certain rules
I play by. I play by those rules
and demand that others play similarly. All of us except the psycho Farmer John play by these rules.
Ren's blog became an eyesore with all of the spam of the many insane
personas of Farmer John. Believe it or not I would never want to silence the guy. He is cheaper than a rubber chicken and slightly dumber.
I came here to get away from this insane lunatic. Why follow someone who wants nothing to do with you?
Because he is a certified nut.
I will see you over by our mutual buddies. He doesn't hang his hat there.
What if I told you that I'm secretly FJ? ;)
1) Extensively uses sock puppets
I am a sock puppet.
2) Tends to wax of on cut and paste philosophy.
I've cut and paste philosophical texts many times.
3) Never shows an inkling of a human life.
Robots need love too.
4) Comments that are verbose but mean nothing.
Opinions differ. I can be pretty verbose when I want to be.
5) needs to seem like an authority figure
Sure, Officer Beak.
The Farmer did write the stuff I described.
No he didn't. I did. Between my work at the Blaze and Daily Kos.
Come off it Beak. You're being absurd.
Mr B
My job title is officer. There is no subterfuge there. Unless we are talking abut immigration policies there is no authority.
I am done with Farmer John.
You have nothing but his word that he didn't do. these things. Had he not manipulated people who were supposed to be his friends he wouldn't be in this mess.
The problem is when you deliberately manipulate your friends you soon loose them. He is not the only person who understands
psychology and let things slip that proved embarrassing.
I want nothing to do with him.
As for you being a sock puppet. Your persona is the greatest blog
creation in the blogosphere. Always
interesting and always entertaining
and frequently hysterical.
I saw you being baited and jumped in. I had no idea Farmer John was baiting a friend. I don't treat my friends like this. When we disagree
we have it out and laugh later. There is nothing funny about manipulation, cruel mind games and antisemitic commentary. Neither Elmer nor Z knew this was a FJ sock puppet.
You also know I would never write something I didn't really believe.
I saw the comments of FJ admitting who he was quite differently. I have a long history with this nut
through many names. Mine never changes but his always does.
You are always my brother though we disagree on this one.
Ducky
He does have a rather odd fixation on the hind quarters.
One of the reasons I like and respect you is that you are a real person for better or worse. You have a code of honor and some dreadful ideas. However, as a person you are real and above all entertaining.
Lets go over your themes
Ren was more involved with the threats of John Brown and Slave Revolt then he admitted to. He was asked to intercede with friends whose actions were criminal. Threatening Children is no laughing matter and this was done at least twice. In the case of Junglemom this appeared to be a clear attempt to silence a very informed voice on the plight of Venezuelan Indians.
Certain types of comments earn the honor of being called antisemitic.
Questioning the loyalty of Jews who support Israel is antisemitic
when you do it and just as antisemitic when FJ does it.
FJ even does you one better by playing a series of Clintonian word games with Concentration Camp.
Mr B may not see that as antisemitic when done from someone right of Fidel Castro but I am consistent across the board.
Actually, I do know that Farmer John posts under many idiotic aliases. However, many people did not realize that the Paulbot Joe Conservative was one of them. There
is nothing honorable about manipulating friends.
In a moment of weakness he revealed
who he really is. Some of you see
it as sarcasm, but I knew the person very well. I have no doubt he is Socrates.
I wanted nothing to do with him and left FPM to come here. I really
wasn't looking for him so he flew under the radar. I had assumed he found more interesting playmates than me.
The problem was he always wanted to outsmart me. Whatever, smack down I gave him still is remembered eight years later.
I like real people Ducky. Real people are interesting and make for good blogging. Sock puppets are the tools of a disturbed person who likes to manipulate people.
The Farmer is deeply disturbed and above all else a bore. Let him play somewhere else.
I saw you being baited and jumped in. I had no idea Farmer John was baiting a friend. I don't treat my friends like this.
I can take care of myself and my mind, thank you. Without your hysterical flailing at FJ and accusing him of being every monster in your past, our discussion of Ron Paul read much more seriously than you give it credit for. That's unfortunate, but all on you.
So FJ played "Devil's Advocate." So what? It's nothing he hasn't done many times in the past.
Your "case" against him is absurd and slanderous.
Dude, you called him a "child molester." That's beyond the pale.
Now all that remains to be seen is if you're really done with FJ, or if he's your new David Yeagley (that you're done with).
This is silly.
Beamish
It is true that you can handle yourself. However, it is not my nature to leave a buddy like that.
FJ could have made these comments as himself but clearly knew he was deceiving many.
Unlike the word games of Farmer John I will point to the key moment. Farmer John admits to being Socrates. He was asked if he wrote the descriptions of child molestaion that he is well aware
this person wrote. He was never accused of child molestation.
The person known as Socrates also
did write Jews into the ovens, sexually harassed women and wrote really nasty anti Black crap.
Mr B. it remains a fact that I came here to get away from this person. He followed me here not visa versa. Why follow someone that wants nothing to do with you.
Maybe he thought he was going to make it up for the really terrible things he did at FPM. If he really wants to make it up just quit following a person around that wants no contact.
I do not like sock puppets and will
not go to sites that permit this type of nonesense.
I'm sure FJ would admit to being Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny if you accused him of it.
FJ did not "admit to being Socrates." He laughed off your accusations because there is no truth to them.
You're bent out of shape that you didn't know FJ was Joe Conservative. I don't see how you missed that as FJ and JC actually do have the same writing style.
From that you've concocted a whole horror story of how the great Beakerkin that can spot deception in his sleep was actually duped for a decade by a guy who's been nothing but a friend and ally to you.
I'm beginning to think maybe FJ, myself, and everyone else in our "crew" was duped by you.
Your witch hunt is absurd, Beak.
Mr B
Everyone has the right to go where they wish. I asked the Farmer to leave me alone. He purposely picks a site he has never gone on before and shows up.
Accident Mr B, we think not
Think whatever suits you. Your views are based on your vantage points, experience and gut. I respect your right to feel differently.
It is easy to fool someone not looking for you. I left a long time ago and moved into a new place.
There are only three possibilities
1) FJ is Socrates and wrote the disgusting material
2) FJ is Socrates but someone else wrote that material. This is a very real probability as the person he was fighting with was not above that
3) He is a total and utter imbecile who had no clue where this could go.
If it is three he should just state so and apologize for manipulating people who thought he was a friend. Don't know about you but I don't like that type of fare.
In my heart I honestly believe it is one or two.
As I am in moderation he can send whatever he wishes as FJ in private. I am a man of my word and will not publish anything he wishes kept private.
There are only three possibilities
You're forgeting a fourth possibility.
4) Beakerkin is full of shit.
I don't feel "manipulated" by FJ, and neither does anyone else.
I don't even believe you feel "manipulated." Your woe-is-me passion play is falling on deaf ears.
This is so over-the-top that I'm about to return to blogging, and I'm not going to be nice about it.
Nobody out-assholes me.
Mr B
Ultimately that is your opinion.
I left FPM because of sock puppetry and where it led. Nobody knew who anyone was and in that atmosphere
terrible things did happen.
The person known as Socrates did do some terrible things. How much of the stuff I described was him and how much was that of his foes
is unknown.
Unlike the Farmer, I do not write stuff I do not stand behind. He hurls antisemic stuff ala Ducky as Joe Conservative, but he is in charachter. He spends days as a Paulbot but really isn't a Paulbot.
He says he is the perhaps the greatest known internet criminal and there is plenty of overlap, but wait he isn't the that person he is just being sarcastic.
I really have no desire to be around Farmer John. I stand behind
every comment I write. I am also accountable and have maintained a consistent persona. Let the Farmer take his freak show somewhere else.
Everyone is free to come and go as they wish and to hang there hat where they want. I have chosen to go in another direction. I do not like sock puppetry, never have.
Using a sock puppet on unwitting friends is a sure fire way to lose those friends and annoy people.
I am picking up my things and once again leaving because I want nothing to do with this person. This is not the first time I have walked away from this person. Unfortunately, he followed me here
knowing full well that I want nothing to do with him. He should have the decency to leave me alone this time.
You can play with the Farmer if you like, but I am done. Now going onto blogs where he has never commented and following me is stalking. This isn't the first time he has done this.
Let him play elsewhere.
You're all over the map, Beak.
"The person known as Socrates" is irrelevant to this discussion, other than your false presumption that he and FJ are the same person.
Thus you accuse FJ of stalking you and harrassing you, yet he hasn't. He's been welcome here all along.
Then you play like you asked him to leave you alone, but you didn't, because he's not this "Socrates" character that has you scarred for life.
I've deleted and restarted my blog in its entirety some 28 times in the last seven years. Does that mean I "don't stand behind what I write?"
I've tried to be reasonable and get you to address the fact that you are slandering a man we've all been friends with for a long time.
I'm tired of being reasonable and diplomatic with you. Diplomacy is for pussies.
As long as you're going to slander FJ, consider us at war.
Beak-
It's time for you and FJ both to grow up, shape hands, and kiss and make up. It's getting to the point I'm having to struggle mightily to keep from doing a blog post about this.
Frankly, this is almost just too damn good to pass up. Two federal government employees acting like little kids is a small government Federalists wet dream. If you and FJ both weren't people I consider friends I would already have made a killer hilarious post at your expense.
Is there some kind of intense rivalry between NASA and DHS that has previously gone unnoticed by the country at large? If so this could be my chance to make a name for myself.
Has the federal government taken to hiring twelve year old kids? Or is every day "take your kid to work day"?
Suppose I did know FJ may be JC, so what. I don't care if he is. You're getting repetitive Beak. FJ sarcastically admits to being Soc. And now you can't admit that you made a mistake. Get over yourself.
Elmer
There is no fight. I walked away.
I am not convinced this was sarcasm. You don't manipulate your
friends.
Mr B
You can't have a war with someone who will not fight. I am not fighting you or anyone else.
Pagan
Your line did make me laugh.
This goes back a long time through
countless names. The antics of FJ are not for me. He has his fans, but this was either a joke gone too
far or something really disturbing.
If FJ really was not this person why even joke like that. He certainly knew what the man did and it is no laughing matter.
The people who doubt me were not there and do not know that person.
All they have is his word and a gut feeling.
Of course if FJ explains the whole story then it can be put behind. Homer appears after the board is cleared. A female poster was harassed. Homer and FJ were contemporaries not serial names.
Whatever, I did left a mark. I came here to get away from boards with sock puppets. Even if this were a gag it isn't funny.
You are always a valued friend
It's just sad Beak, that's all. I think you're taking it too hard, when actually FJ probably assumed you knew Joe Conservative was him, just like me and Beamish did. And really, I think his major point was you can't just drum somebody out of the party. You even used the word "purge", a Stalinist term. I think that was his major objection. I told you myself, that should be up to the people of his district. Otherwise, the party establishment people would probably be fine with him leaving, which as I also told you, he is leaving after this term. He has announced his retirement.
I take it you don't care much for Barry Manilow.
FJ is not a federal employee
Elmer
Point made. I understand you and the others have faith in FJ. This is something I respect. From your perspective and that of the others
the Farmer is a valued friend.
My perspective is different and the farmer and I go way back. How far back only the Farmer knows. I only write with one name and my identity and persona are the same.
Now most of you think whatever happened at FPM was long ago and that the man we know as the Farmer
should be given the benefit of the doubt. As the Farmer has yet to be
forthright this is not possible.
I am done playing the constant fixed variable in the Farmers math
problems or Bud Abbot to his Costello. I do not like being manipulated or messed with. Let him take his brand of comedy elsewhere.
I won't travel where he is known to go. I would appreciate if he doesn't drop in on sites he knows
I visit and interject himself.
My leaving does not infer that I am angry with anyone. There are times we decide we have to hang our hat elsewhere.
Pagan
There is a phenomena known as entryism and there is a reason we have a very messed up Democratic Party. The Democratic Party allowed socialists into their ranks. The original principles of the party were altered until it is a party we can no longer recognize.
I am a lifelong member of the GOP. I joined the party of Reagan, not the Paul family freakshow. As a Republican we either stand for something or we become jokes like the Democrats.
Paul resigned his GOP membership protesting Reagan's policies and at some point rejoined. He also quotes Reagan when expedient in a cynical false packaging bit.
Manilow is a really strange guy with some funny notions. Manilow at one time had a fixation with a porn star
named Robyn Bird.
I never owned his records or thought about the guy positively or negatively.
Beak-
There is a big difference between Ron Paul running as a Republican in Texas in order to be elected to Congress on a policy of fiscal conservatism, and Michael Harrington and other communists joining the ranks of the Democratic Party.
On fiscal matters, Paul and the GOP share the same philosophy, though Paul's version is more extreme. But on almost anything else, Paul is not now now will ever be an influence, aside from his one vote in the House.
Michael Harrington and the commies didn't just join the Democrats because they shared a few basic positions with them, they got themselves appointed to positions of influence within the party organization so they could affect policy across a wide spectrum.
Apples and oranges, in other words. Or maybe, fruits and nuts. The point is Ron Paul has no influence on the party even on fiscal matters as far as that's concerned, and damned sure not on anything else.
well Beak he did tell you that he didn't start using sock puppets until we sought to rid your blog of the vile troll that is John Brown.
He explained this in his apology. I can see it fell on deaf ears.
Elmer
The Farmer and I go way back. How far
back only he knows as I have had one constant persona.
Have I spent eight years of my life as a rubber chicken? This isn't a way we treat friends.
The Farmer was very helpful and at times a good friend. It would have been helpful had he played this one
straight.
Eight years of playing a fixed variable to the Farmers random creations is a bit much. You get to wondering who else he was but
this bit didn't start with Homer.
I haven't forgotten the good times
and there were many. Unfortunately
in order for me to go forward I need honest answers from the Farmer. The answers he gave either were true or he meant to antagonize me.Was he Socrates? If so what happened? If he wasn't just who was he it didn't start with Homer?Homer and FJ were contemporaries like FJ and Titan Uranus.
Nobody should go through life as a punchline unless they are the odd
part of a comedy act. Have I been
playing Abbot or Costello, Martin or Lewis. Only the Farmer can provide those answers. I have been
myself the whole time.
I would offer the other site to resolve this, but the Farmer doesn't hang his hat there.
You can't have a war with someone who will not fight. I am not fighting you or anyone else.
Then I will crush you under my heels of comedic oppression under I bore of it. You still haven't explained why your mother didn't abort you.
;)
I will say that Barry Manilow is no anti-Semite.
I suspect he supports Ron Paul's attempts to open Copacabana as a tourist trap in Cuba.
Mr B
As you are known for comedy it wouldn't work.
As you are known for comedy it wouldn't work.
Sure it would. Who's laughing at Beak right now?
Who wants to see the debut of my sock puppet Beaverkin?
Mr B
Beaverkin can be a great plus. You can take his to all kinds of places with great potential for mayhem.
No doubt if Ren's site were still active you could be the life of the party. I doubt it would fool anyone who has dealt with me for a while.
Knock yourself out.
My threat of "warfare" has already elicited the response I desired... your "apology to FJ."
Too Bad Beaverkin had comedic possibilities.
He was a friend for a long time. There comes times where people need to give direct answers. A really stupid prank shouldn't erase that.
Only one person knows the real story.He hasn't said it, but it isn't worth bloodshed.
He doesn't appear out of thin air as Homer. He likely had a series of names for similar gags at my expense and that of others.
Not funny at all
I got an email from FJ reiterating what he said about not using sock puppets until JB. The fact fact that you don't believe him is your issue not his.
well... you know what another word for "beaver" is...
;)
Mr B
I was aware of the connection. Makes
for classic satire. If Ren were around we could have him baffled.
Elmer
The Farmer has used many aliases prior to John Brown.He just doesn't show up as Homer out of nowhere.
I understand you have a faith in him and I respect that. There is more to the story.
Prove it
Elmer
The name Homer first appears on FPM after the board has been purged of all Soc clones. Soc at the time used many names such as Muster Quark, Ultimate Socrates and Shanghai Charlie.
A female commenter, I think her name was Fiona, was sexually harassed by Quark a Soc alias. In that attmosphere people were somewhat jumpy about where Soc would appear.
Now the Farmer we know would never write sexually harassing material.
He might write some questionable stuff in character as he did with
Joe Conservative. The problem was the person who had the beef with Soc was capable of this as well.
It is highly improbable that he walks into the forum as Homer on the day after the site had been flushed. He also knows who had been in what camp. The person we know as FJ tangled with Donal, myself and likely Johny Mac.
There is more to the story, but that was long ago. There were several one day comedy acts that were basically harmless such as the 9-11 Truther commenter Murray
Rothbard. That could be the Farmer spoofing people for fun, harmless enough.
What the real story is only FJ knows. He needed to have a reflective moment and say Beakerkin
it wasn't my finest moment and the
matter is done. Instead he confesses to being the greatest internet criminal on the planet.
Not a smart move.
Post a Comment